Why do we turn left in the pattern?

[Oldman731]

Peter Garrison's "Technicalities" column in this month's "Flying" magazine is interesting, not so much for answering this question, as for all of the insight into the Sopwith Camel, and rotary engine planes in general.  Among his observations:

Camels rolled equally rapidly in either direction, but the downward slicing of the nose in a rapid right turn, and the consequent acceleration, made pilots feel that they “turned better” to the right than to the left, and gave rise to the canard, repeated in Wikipedia, that ­Camels could make a 270 to the right more quickly than a 90 to the left.

The full article is here:

http://www.flyingmag.com/technicalities-why-left

- oldman

[Vraciu]

The PIC sits on the left.   Left traffic is standard for that reason.   How we got there?    Don't ask me.

Helo PICs OTOH sit in the right seat.   The reason for that is how the first cadre of instructor pilots were taught, or so they say...

I believe Garrison wrote years ago that someone did an experiment with a Camel or exact replica and disproved this whole tale.   I'll have to read this article and see what the new wrinkle is. 

Interstingly, since most fighters are flown with a stick in the right hand the tendency for breaks is to the left.    That's what an old Marine warhorse told me years ago.  I've noticed I have the same tendency in the game.   Go figure.

Any way, Garrison is the only thing in FLYING that's worth reading any more.   Too bad...

[mikeWe9a]

Depending upon the airport, the 'standard' may be determined by the runway, and to be honest I see as many right hand as left hand patterns.  Direction nowadays is usually dependent on the runway and whether there is anything (another runway, residential area, etc) that they don't want you flying over in the standard box pattern.

Mike

[Oldman731]

The PIC sits on the left.   Left traffic is standard for that reason.   How we got there?    Don't ask me.

Helo PICs OTOH sit in the right seat.   

And helicopters fly opposite patterns!

- oldman

[Owlblink]

And helicopters fly opposite patterns!

- oldman

Yes, for simplicity of ground control and so forth. Fixed wing have the right of way.

Generally planes tended to go left due to torque in WWII times (acceptions being Yaks, Spit14 and other such planes). Sometime back I remember seeing a link for diagrams that compared the change in turn circles for various warbird planes making left and right performance turns.
 In most casses it doesnt seem to make a huge difference accept in the rare equal fight when trying to capitalize on every move as much as possible.

[Vraciu]

And helicopters fly opposite patterns!

- oldman

And your point is...?   You lost me somewhere...

[icepac]

What if there is a flashing red light in the segmented circle?

[WEZEL]

NASCAR.........

[Oldman731]

And your point is...?   You lost me somewhere...

In both instances - for standard pattern airports - the pilots sit on the inside of the turn.

- oldman

[Vraciu]

In both instances - for standard pattern airports - the pilots sit on the inside of the turn.

- oldman

Gotcha.   You'd lost me in the turn.  Pun intended.   

[saggs]

Helo PICs OTOH sit in the right seat.   The reason for that is how the first cadre of instructor pilots were taught, or so they say...

In the helicopter world (of which I used to be a part) it's common for PIC to be left seat as well.  Especially in long line and construction operations. 

I was on a construction job with many helicopters for a year. The MD500D and 600N and 2 Huey's (204 and 205) and the Erickson Skycrane all flew PIC from the left seat (the usual standard for part 133 external load operations)  But the AS350B flew PIC from the right seat (only because A-Stars have a belly window with which to see the line)

I know a guy who built his RV-7 and PICs it from the right seat, only because he like the throttle in his left hand.

It just depends.

[saggs]

And helicopters fly opposite patterns!

- oldman

When I used to work with them, helicopters almost never flew patterns.  In fact I think I only ever saw it at the flight school.  In the real world it was always just fly straight to hangar/ramp.  Maybe it's common elsewhere... IDK...

[Vraciu]

In the helicopter world (of which I used to be a part) it's common for PIC to be left seat as well.  Especially in long line and construction operations. 

I was on a construction job with many helicopters for a year. The MD500D and 600N and 2 Huey's (204 and 205) and the Erickson Skycrane all flew PIC from the left seat (the usual standard for part 133 external load operations)  But the AS350B flew PIC from the right seat (only because A-Stars have a belly window with which to see the line)

I know a guy who built his RV-7 and PICs it from the right seat, only because he like the throttle in his left hand.

It just depends.

Well, things may have changed over the years, but traditionally the helo PIC was/is in the right seat.   This was at one time a configuration-dependent situation.   With dual cyclic controls that went out the window, but tradition stuck...at least for awhile...partly due to ergonomics.   In any event, it dates back to Igor Sikorsky and the first generation of Army helo pilots who became the instructors that taught the first wave how to fly them.

It's one of those things both AIRWOLF and BLUE THUNDER got right.   The former because Bellisario was a helo pilot as I recall.

[pembquist]

It is because long ago the airships had their steering oars on the right side so they would pull up to the dock on the left.

[10thmd]

It's because the Greatest plane ever turns better to the left. The BF109 is the airframe I am referring to in case any of you are confused.