"FOTO JO" Armed recon P-38.

[lyric1]

There's no real way they'd have worked.

If fake why go to the trouble to put corks and or caps over the holes of the guns when the aircraft is stationary?
That is an act of preservation for a piece of equipment that is functional.

[Krusty]

Not necessarily. Could have been on at all times, even during flight. Look at the size of the cameras and look at the size of the ammo drums for the guns. They take up the entire nose, both of them. They both can't be there. The only thing I can think of, logically, is they bolted in the empty M2 50cal on each side but without any ammo, but honestly you could fake the whole thing with a lot less weight. The barrels and cooling sleeves were removable and replacable. Far easier to just bolt a used barrel onto a post and save 20lbs for the pair of empty guns.

Take for example the various setups that the F-5s and F-4s had, each plane of glass woudl have a camera mount on it. We see at least two downward panes of glass in "Jo" so we know it has at least tow vertical cameras, as you see in the previously posted pictures. That puts it, what, towards the early end of the photo recon configuration? Later models had up to 6 or 7 in the nose shooting at angles sideways and downwards. Still, even with 2 that would preclude any room for the standard 50cal drum feed below the M2 mount, and possibly the M2 itself depending on the size of the camera (again, see the photo already posted, some cameras were larger).

[donna43]

I think that they are fake compare the two photos shell ejection chutes open and chutes covered.

[Vraciu]

The two-camera-only installation may have had room for the two .50s.   

[lyric1]

I think that they are fake compare the two photos shell ejection chutes open and chutes covered.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

We are not talking about a normal layout gun armed P-38 here. If it was done it was done in the field by mechanics on site. With the cannon gone there is a chamber that stored all the shells they did not eject 20mm shells out of the aircraft on any P-38. That compartment could have easily stored 50 cals instead if armed.
This again would have been done in the field.
If armed it would not have the huge gun trays like the normal P-38 they would also be done in the field.

Going back to this photo that I found and had no forum with it or any comments real or not real?




Not having any point of reference who knows?

[lyric1]

Not necessarily. Could have been on at all times, even during flight. Look at the size of the cameras and look at the size of the ammo drums for the guns. They take up the entire nose, both of them. They both can't be there. The only thing I can think of, logically, is they bolted in the empty M2 50cal on each side but without any ammo, but honestly you could fake the whole thing with a lot less weight. The barrels and cooling sleeves were removable and replacable. Far easier to just bolt a used barrel onto a post and save 20lbs for the pair of empty guns.

Take for example the various setups that the F-5s and F-4s had, each plane of glass woudl have a camera mount on it. We see at least two downward panes of glass in "Jo" so we know it has at least tow vertical cameras, as you see in the previously posted pictures. That puts it, what, towards the early end of the photo recon configuration? Later models had up to 6 or 7 in the nose shooting at angles sideways and downwards. Still, even with 2 that would preclude any room for the standard 50cal drum feed below the M2 mount, and possibly the M2 itself depending on the size of the camera (again, see the photo already posted, some cameras were larger).

Your argument falls apart on the plugs being on all the time, you clearly have not looked at the other photos of this aircraft.

Light coloured plugs/corks.



Nothing covering them.



Looks to be nothing in this one.


 
In this one looks to have dark sleeves covering the end of the barrels.



Guessing what is fake and real is anybody's guess? Few people commented with their opinions on the site that Guppy posted but none of them know either.
Nor do we at this point.
We have to get someone from this unit or find more documentation either way to know.

It is interesting though that so many photos of this aircraft exist  granted it is a photo recon unit so cameras and film would be plenty abundant.

Yet for some reason everyone kept taking photos of this Foto-Jo more than any other aircraft in this unit.

[Devil 505]

Your argument falls apart on the plugs being on all the time, you clearly have not looked at the other photos of this aircraft.

Light coloured plugs/corks.



Nothing covering them.



Looks to be nothing in this one.


 
In this one looks to have dark sleeves covering the end of the barrels.



Guessing what is fake and real is anybody's guess? Few people commented with their opinions on the site that Guppy posted but none of them know either.
Nor do we at this point.
We have to get someone from this unit or find more documentation either way to know.

It is interesting though that so many photos of this aircraft exist  granted it is a photo recon unit so cameras and film would be plenty abundant.

Yet for some reason everyone kept taking photos of this Foto-Jo more than any other aircraft in this unit.

I think you may have stumbled onto to the answer. If this plane was in fact modified to have a pair of working guns, it would definitely warrant the attention it received over the rest of the unit's planes.

But then it does beg the question as to why no photos of the internals were ever seen.

[donna43]

Well true, I was going by the covers over the ejection chutes.

[lyric1]

Well true, I was going by the covers over the ejection chutes.

So was I but in regards to where was the 5th one for the cannon shells.
Nice job on the colourized versions as well. 

Meanwhile another profile I found no red or yellow for that matter is on the actual pictures IMHO.



Even the Russians got on board with this one.

[lyric1]

This image shows the P-38 gun bay minus the 20mm cannon. Quite a bit more space when you get all that hardware out of the way.

Also I believe that slot in the middle is the 20mm cannon ejection chute were the shells are stored in a chamber.  It looks like that is where the cannon belt feed magazine is attached above that chamber.







20mm Magazine being loaded.



Drawing of lay out of 20mm cannon.



Good image of the magazine as well as the top of the shell catching chamber.
It also aligns with the 20mm shell ejection door.



Door better seen in these two WWII historically correct period photos.





Another image of a different armed droop snoot.



I wonder if these armed droop snoots were common? After all they were not done at the factory  If only there was some information confirming this.

OH MY. 



Goodness this book preview confirmed they did do this for the benefit of the crew. Now we have a guy laying down in the nose with two machine guns as well as ammo trays had to be tight but they clearly fitted them all in.

If only there was a reference about armed Foto recon aircraft.
Sadly no complete access to those pages but they do give a brief glimpse.

TAH-DAH.



Book is on the way.










 

[lyric1]

Now we know how the used 20mm cannons shells were dealt with.

[lyric1]

[Vraciu]

Drop the mic.

[Guppy35]

The question then is will HTC allow the skinning of a one off or very limited field modified airplane?

[Guppy35]

They only have to work once.   To heck with the cameras, save the plane.

The recce 38s were by far the fastest 38s and part of that was due to the removal of the extra weight of armor plate and guns.  The recce pilots were trained to run away not engage.

Anyone see a gun sight in the cockpit photos of FOTO JO?