WW lll

[zack1234]

I have felt for some time (long before the current administration) that the world is heading to a major war if things don't change. A lot of factors have been point to it; Russian incursion into their border countries. China military build up, US military. Middle east tensions. Artic ice melting, Russia re building bases in the Artic. The big three have been expanding their respective military's.

Russia may not be militarily ready for war but they are pushing ahead with an aggressive agenda.
 Historically this is the first time since the 1700's that there hasn't been a world war in the first half of a century.
 China may be publically trying to nudge North Korea away from their current stance, but China is a historical ally of North Korea.

 

So its war then

Wars = profit

[Chris79]

There will be no large scale global war, eventually the losing side lobs nukes. There will be no large scale nuclear war, because no matter how despotic a country's leader may be, the instinct for self preservation will win the day. The nut with 1 nuke concerns me the most, there is always one crackpot out there that is willing to "Martyor" themselves.

[Joker]

When the hurricane hit us GMan, it's true, you couldn't get money out of the bank or ATM. But I had enough cash for that time and our problem didn't last all that long before the town started getting back on its feet. It did get me thinking though.

One of the major problems in the event of an EMP attack would be transportation. You won't be able to drive anywhere.

If we are now talking about really major provisions for a long term scenario, things get completely different.
The mental masturbation you can go through about "what if" can provide hours of entertainment.
I'm like Rip.....I have some 90% silver coins ( no gold ) to possibly be used as currency if/when paper money is worthless. Silver is relatively cheap right now, BTW.
Also about 30,000 rounds ammo of various calibers. A chunk of that is .22LR partially for barter.
As for medical, since I am a physician I have access to medical supplies and medications, so I keep some on hand for emergencies.
The well I put down is an endless supply of fresh water, and we live on a large body of water that has plenty of fish.
We also live in a very rural area with plenty of deer and bear although I think they would be hunted out before long if they were to become a major part of the daily diet in the area. Because of where I live there are lots of hunters and lots of gun owners.
I have a group of neighbors who are all willing to band together in an emergency ( we did in the last one ). Also have family members in this area who would stick with us. I have to remember that all of these folks will require food and provisions.

If you really want to think about this, here's a list that has been floating around the net for some time.
You'll laugh, but after I read One Second After the first thing that occurred to me was what would I be thinking as I used up my last roll of toilet paper?
 

      100 Items to Disappear First
 
 1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
 2. Water Filters/Purifiers
 3. Portable Toilets
 4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
 5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
 6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
 7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
 8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
 9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
 10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
 11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
 12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
 13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
 14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without this item, propane won't heat a room.)
 15. Grain Grinder (Non-electric)
 16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
 17. Survival Guide Book.
 18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
 19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
 20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
 21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
 22. Vitamins
 23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
 24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
 25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
 26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
 27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
 28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
 29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
 30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
 31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
 32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
 33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
 34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
 35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
 36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
 37. First aid kits
 38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
 39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
 40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
 41. Flour, yeast & salt
 42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
 43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
 44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
 45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
 46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
 47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
 48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
 49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
 50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
 51. Fishing supplies/tools
 52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
 53. Duct Tape
 54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
 55. Candles
 56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
 57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
 58. Garden tools & supplies
 59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
 60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
 61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
 62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
 63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
 64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
 65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
 66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
 67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
 68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
 69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
 70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
 71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
 72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
 73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
 74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
 75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
 76. Reading glasses
 77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
 78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
 79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
 80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
 81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
 82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
 83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
 84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
 85. Lumber (all types)
 86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
 87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
 88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
 89. Lantern Hangers
 90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
 91. Teas
 92. Coffee
 93. Cigarettes
 94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
 95. Paraffin wax
 96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
 97. Chewing gum/candies
 98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
 99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
 100. Goats/chickens

 From a Sarajevo War Survivor:
 Experiencing horrible things that can happen in a war - death of parents and
 friends, hunger and malnutrition, endless freezing cold, fear, sniper attacks.

 1. Stockpiling helps. but you never no how long trouble will last, so locate
     near renewable food sources.
 2. Living near a well with a manual pump is like being in Eden.
 3. After awhile, even gold can lose its luster. But there is no luxury in war
    quite like toilet paper. Its surplus value is greater than gold's.
 4. If you had to go without one utility, lose electricity - it's the easiest to
    do without (unless you're in a very nice climate with no need for heat.)
 5. Canned foods are awesome, especially if their contents are tasty without
     heating. One of the best things to stockpile is canned gravy - it makes a lot of
     the dry unappetizing things you find to eat in war somewhat edible. Only needs
     enough heat to "warm", not to cook. It's cheap too, especially if you buy it in
     bulk.
 6. Bring some books - escapist ones like romance or mysteries become more
     valuable as the war continues. Sure, it's great to have a lot of survival
     guides, but you'll figure most of that out on your own anyway - trust me, you'll
     have a lot of time on your hands.
 7. The feeling that you're human can fade pretty fast. I can't tell you how many
     people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of
     toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to
     lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else.
 8. Slow burning candles and matches, matches, matches

 

[PR3D4TOR]

There will be no large scale global war, eventually the losing side lobs nukes. There will be no large scale nuclear war, because no matter how despotic a country's leader may be, the instinct for self preservation will win the day. The nut with 1 nuke concerns me the most, there is always one crackpot out there that is willing to "Martyor" themselves.

You obviously have far more faith in the rationality of human beings than I.

[Bizman]

See Rule #4

[Shuffler]

Our group has at least one room in each of our homes for supplies. Including guns and ammunition to protect those supplies. At this time 2 homes have installed underground bunkers. We have fuel , generators, wood, 3 wells... 1 is very deep. You should always be prepared.

We have 1 doctor and 2 nurses in the group.

[Brooke]

In my opinion that type of storing is a waste of resources. There's people literally starving to death and there's people saving food hoping they could throw it away after some decades. One might think that storing and rotating canned food is out of use in the same manner, but in my thinking that is considered as delayed consuming instead of delayed composting.

If you want a society to be prepared for emergency, the most cost-effective, best, easiest way to do it is some buckets of rice and beans.  It is way less cost and far less effort than a rotating cache of other food.

Also, whether you make up some rice and beans and keep it forever or eat your rice and beans but then buy more to replenish the amount you ate, the math is exactly the same:  there is X amount sitting there not being eaten at all times, and there is X of it sitting there when I die, to be used, given away, or thrown out by my heirs.

Even if there were a difference (which there isn't) between the wastage of food between rotating and not rotating:

1.  It's for an emergency, like if you buy batteries or flashlights or a spare radio or some emergency blankets or a 1st aid kit that sit there unused except for an emergency.

2.  That rice and beans I bought was never going to starving people.  It would either be bought by people who aren't starving or be thrown out as excess.  It would be completely uneconomical to ship that particular rice and beans to starving people compared to throwing it out and using the money you would spend on shipping to buy them food locally.

3.  If we are talking about wasting money that could be deployed differently (which this isn't, because it is the cheapest way for me to have X amount of calories available for an emergency), people waste 1000 times more money on things like $100/month phone plan, $200/month cable bill, a bunch of useless apps, going out to a crappy movie you didn't even like, jewelry, more clothes than needed, a more-expensive car than needed, a more-expensive house than needed, more TV's than needed, cigarettes, alcohol, candy, mountains of food that is eaten but bad for your health, etc.

4.  Even if people didn't waste the money they personally have, they very often contribute to putting in place bad economic systems that waste national money in astonishingly gargantuan quantities that dwarf any considerations of rice and beans by such an extent that it is like arguing about a blade of grass in a forest that is in the process of being burned down.

[Mister Fork]

The big 3 questions you may want to ask is this:

- If you do indeed have enough supplies to last 1-2 months in a bunker with a group of survivalists, if you actually need a shelter to survive in, is 1-2 months enough?
- If there is so much devastation (i.e. nuclear war), you may need 'years' of supplies to live until the top side is survivable, let alone livable. What exactly are you living to survive to?
- Finally, this new world world you now live in, can you adjust who you are to survive and thrive?

[Brooke]

By the way, for folks who are thinking about medicine, one that is very useful is antibiotics.

You generally can't go to your doctor and ask for a bunch of different types of antibiotics so that you can stock up.

But you can buy fish antibiotics, which are the same as human antibiotics, in the same dose sizes.  "Fishmox", "Fishcycline", etc. are amoxicillin, tetracycline, etc.

Oh, and a medical manual to know what to give for what in which doses is of course a good thing.

[Bizman]

Brooke, it seems that there's apples and oranges we're talking about. I may have used a little too hard expressions at some point, blame the lack of understanding the nuances of the English language... My idea about replenishing what you eat is based on the fact that you'd have to go and buy food anyway. So why not circulate what you have and keep your stock fresh? That would also maintain a constant demand in the shops instead of one single spike for certain items.

The same with batteries and other things that have a set expiration date. Even the spare radio should be used every now and then to check it still works. Just today I read an article about poor electronics that won't last longer than the warranty time even if unused.

As for wasting money, that's what it has been made for. As long as you can make the ends meet, you're free to spend. Saving some for a rainy day is sane, saving for a rainy decade maybe not so. Reasonableness is the key word I'm thinking of, in this matter as well with everything else.

[10thmd]

We need a big war to melt snowflake's by the millions

[Brooke]

My idea about replenishing what you eat is based on the fact that you'd have to go and buy food anyway. So why not circulate what you have and keep your stock fresh? That would also maintain a constant demand in the shops instead of one single spike for certain items.

Think of it this way.  Case A:  I buy N buckets worth of rice and beans and leave them untouched until I die.  Separately, I buy rice and beans to eat as I see fit and consume them when I get them.  When I die, those N buckets are thrown out or taken by someone else.  Case B:  I buy N buckets worth of rice and beans, eat from them as I see fit, adding more rice and beans to keep the buckets full.  When I die, those N buckets are thrown out or taken by someone else.

There is no difference.

No difference in how much rice and beans do or don't get thrown out.

No difference in rate of supply from stores.

No difference in freshness, as rice and beans stored this way don't become unfresh.

If you want some rations around for an emergency, this is your cheapest, easiest way to go.  It is far cheaper, easier, and less wasteful in actual practice than maintaining an overstock of something held in a more-perishable form and managing a rotating consumption of it (which I tried in the past with canned goods when I lived in California, in case an earthquake ruined my ability to go to the supermarket for a while).

So, while I am too lazy to manage a rotating consumption of an overstocked item, I am not too lazy to make some cheap buckets of rice and beans and be done with it for the rest of my life.

[Easyscor]

I'm more optimistic most of you, and even more then the 'experts' cited in this current bbc article today on exactly this topic, 'Collapse of the West'.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170418-how-western-civilisation-could-collapse

If collapse comes, according to these guys, it won't mater that you have a priest hole, over decades, you'll gradually sink to the same desperate level unless you move to China. Me, I wouldn't want to become a Commy? LOL

[Bizman]

Brooke, I fully understand that logic and for a single individual there really is no measurable difference.

But think about it in a nationwide scale: What if for some reason such preparations became mainstream all of a sudden? People buying rice and beans for a month's need for 300 million Americans apart from their normal consumption? Plus the bags and buckets and other supplies. A panic reaction could trigger such behaviour and that would certainly make shops run out of stuff. In current conditions it's no big issue for the grocer, simply multiply the order and get more rice and beans tomorrow morning. There's plenty of that stuff in the wholesale stock for some time to come. Good times for the grocer! Should this happen when the stocks are at the lowest, the wholesale stock might also run out of those. But still no reason to panic, the farmers will answer to the the increased demand by growing more rice and beans. At the end when everyone has done their preparation there'd be a huge surplus of rice and beans because no one could foresee how long the increased demand would continue.

One might think that such mass hysteria would not take place in our civilization. However, when dealing with the worst fears everything is possible.

[Zimme83]

All you need is 250kg of potatoes and a moose...