The Best Screw Ever

[nrshida]

Get your minds out of the gutter, seriously! I actually wanted to talk about screws.

Just spent three days trying to make one good Macbook Pro out of two bad ones. The screen hinges used T5 Torx screws, six of them. Obviously not been undone since it left the factory. On the first unscrew I was trying to be careful as it felt a little tight. Sure enough the tool suddenly felt weird and 'snap' the tip came off left in the screw. I'm now left with a smooth-headed screw. Worse, I couldn't even drill it because the Torx head was hardened much more than the screw so I had to sleep on it.

The next day I took a tiny disk cutter in a Dremel and ground a slot clear across the whole head. I didn't think it was going to work because the slot looked shallow & round. Barely had to tweak it with a flat-bladed screwdriver and out it came! Didn't bother with a replacement Torx driver for the others, I used the same process.

Read that the 'traditional' slotted screw was cheaper and easier to make, less easily stripped and is able to take considerably more torque. Apparently limiting that torque and helping powered tool assembly is the reason for the bewildering number of self-centring alternatives. Have you looked online? There's dozens of them!

Anyhing I make or modify from now on is either getting old-fashioned slotted screws or possibly Allen heads. Come to think of it I've never had trouble from one of them either.

Who else has had to drill, grind, heat, weld of chisel off these irritating buggers?

[WEZEL]

welcome to my world.....wait till you get to play with tamper proof or inverted torx or some spline drive stuff, when Ford uses a new type fastener and I go broke at the tool truck. 

[colmbo]

I was taking the spinner off my 182 and had stuck screws. Experienced mechanic suggested using a very long screwdriver, said to apply some torque to it and just hold it -- something about the long shaft seemed to help get them out.

I didn't have a long shaft phillips so borrowed a nice Snap On.  On the first screw I twisted the tip off the driver.  Wow!  Unusual for a Snap On tool.  Borrowed a second Snap On and again twisted the tip off.  Hmmmm.  Luckily the Snap On truck was coming by the next day so those guys could get their tools replaced.  Ended up using a cut-off wheel to grind a slot and used a heavy flat tip screwdriver to get the screws out.

[nrshida]

welcome to my world.....

Are you a mechanic Wezel? Do you ever get the feeling car manufacturers hate you nowadays? My Dad had a Riley as his first car. He said you could do everything with a small set of basic tools. He even rewound the ignition coil and sealed it with shellac crystals from the chemist.

Experienced mechanic suggested using a very long screwdriver

I've also heard that before from another source. Interesting.

So you did the same as me on your plane!

[icepac]

Car manufacturers no longer spend much time testing before foisting a vehicle on the public.

I noticed this at lexus starting around 2002.

Instead of testing, they put the car out and rely on the dealership technicians to fix problems that crop up.

They've moved the losses to the technicians by making super difficult warranty proceedures pay nearly nothing.

This is why you find technicians trying to recover thier losses by recommending brakes that still have 50% pad remaining and replacing many parts at once instead of performing time consuming diagnostics.

As a Toyota/lexus Master diagnostic technician, I successfully fix every car the first time in and only replace what is needed.

This impacts my pay negatively and I was just "outearned" by a non-skilled beginner who sold 5 brake jobs a day.......of which 1 per day come back and have to be fixed by me.

[Devil 505]

Car manufacturers no longer spend much time testing before foisting a vehicle on the public.

I noticed this at lexus starting around 2002.

Instead of testing, they put the car out and rely on the dealership technicians to fix problems that crop up.

They've moved the losses to the technicians by making super difficult warranty proceedures pay nearly nothing.

This is why you find technicians trying to recover thier losses by recommending brakes that still have 50% pad remaining and replacing many parts at once instead of performing time consuming diagnostics.

As a Toyota/lexus Master diagnostic technician, I successfully fix every car the first time in and only replace what is needed.

This impacts my pay negatively and I was just "outearned" by a non-skilled beginner who sold 5 brake jobs a day.......of which 1 per day come back and have to be fixed by me.

Yup!

I was a Chevy tech for 9 years and got burnt out because of this crap.

[Bizman]

Experienced mechanic suggested using a very long screwdriver, said to apply some torque to it and just hold it -- something about the long shaft seemed to help get them out.

The explanation is actually very simple: A long shaft will twist ever so slightly, and while you're holding it it acts like a loaded spring. The spring tension is more constant and more subtle than your hands ever could be.

A similar effect can be noticed with rear-wheel-drive vs. front-wheel-drive cars. The long driveshaft allows for smoother operation at driving away because of the slight twisting before rotating. At least that's what my mechanic told me.

[morfiend]

The best screw is a Robertson screw!   Square drive,tapered fit and wont fall off the driver even if it's not magnetic!

  I toss all slotted and Philips screws where they belong,in the garbage!  BTW it's a Canadian invention,Mr Robertson sent millions of his screws to assist the war,the Canadian built Mossies used them profusely.


   I simply refuse to use any other type of screw,the only issue I`ve ever had with them is snapping off the head of the screw,usually when trying to remove an old rusted screw!


   YMMV!


   

 

[nrshida]

The explanation is actually very simple: A long shaft will twist ever so slightly, and while you're holding it it acts like a loaded spring. The spring tension is more constant and more subtle than your hands ever could be.

Course. Genius.

The best screw is a Robertson screw!

I read about these. Even noticed I had some square bits in one of my collections. Never encountered a Robertson screw in any products I've come across. Are they really that good?

[horble]

Robertson rules

[morfiend]

A Robertson screw while being a square drive isnt to be confused with square drive screws!. The square drive is tapered on a robertson,that makes a big difference.

  You rarely see them except in Canadian made products like furniture,they are ex-tensely used in construction here and I suspect the reason you dont see them in electronics,etc. is  because of cost and possibly patent issues.

   


PS: are they that good,ya like I said I toss all other types in the garbage!

[icepac]

I used the robertson square drive screws when I worked at Hatteras of Lauderdale custom yacht yard.

If you do round one up, it seems an ez out works better with them than any other fastener.

[nrshida]

If you do round one up, it seems an ez out works better with them than any other fastener.

Makes sense as the 'staring hole' is concentric.

PS: are they that good,ya like I said I toss all other types in the garbage!

I read the taper was an accidental discovery. The only thing I can hold against the design is that it needs to be cold forged or broached so if you're making custom screws then that's a lot harder to machine than a slotted screw. 

This has been a good thread. We might have found the perfect screw 

While I'm on a forum with lots of aircraft-experienced mechanics. Has anyone had any good / bad experiences with the following type of bolt:-



Only find them labelled as 12-point aircraft grade bolts.

Found a potential source of these in Titanium but have to buy them in bulk.

[WEZEL]

Are you a mechanic Wezel? Do you ever get the feeling car manufacturers hate you nowadays? My Dad had a Riley as his first car. He said you could do everything with a small set of basic tools. He even rewound the ignition coil and sealed it with shellac crystals from the chemist.


I've also heard that before from another source. Interesting.

So you did the same as me on your plane!

Yes Ford tech 30+ years now, cars are built for cheap assembly and no thought into how to service them.

[WEZEL]

Car manufacturers no longer spend much time testing before foisting a vehicle on the public.

I noticed this at lexus starting around 2002.

Instead of testing, they put the car out and rely on the dealership technicians to fix problems that crop up.

They've moved the losses to the technicians by making super difficult warranty proceedures pay nearly nothing.

This is why you find technicians trying to recover thier losses by recommending brakes that still have 50% pad remaining and replacing many parts at once instead of performing time consuming diagnostics.

As a Toyota/lexus Master diagnostic technician, I successfully fix every car the first time in and only replace what is needed.

This impacts my pay negatively and I was just "outearned" by a non-skilled beginner who sold 5 brake jobs a day.......of which 1 per day come back and have to be fixed by me.

I feel that pain also 30+ years with ford and the last 3 years now I have made almost half less money than I did in my first 3 years doing the same work. Un realistic time study for warranty repairs, god forbid a recall or tsb comes out for a repair, time is cut in almost in half  for the same repair.

Tech's are leaving the business in droves  and the manufactures have not caught on to the main reason why and blame the dealer.