Author Topic: the balance is out of whack  (Read 7478 times)

Offline redcatcherb412

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2017, 01:00:07 PM »
Tanks were meant to be support vehicles

This quote would probably not mesh with the tactics used in ;
Blitzkrieg is a method of warfare whereby an attacking force, spearheaded by a dense concentration of armoured and motorised or mechanised infantry formations
or
The Battle of 73 Easting was a decisive tank battle fought on 26 February 1991, during the Gulf War

Tanks were not the support, they were the hammer.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2017, 01:18:40 PM »
This quote would probably not mesh with the tactics used in ;
Blitzkrieg is a method of warfare whereby an attacking force, spearheaded by a dense concentration of armoured and motorised or mechanised infantry formations
or
The Battle of 73 Easting was a decisive tank battle fought on 26 February 1991, during the Gulf War

Tanks were not the support, they were the hammer.

I really meant for AH. Ground wars aren't prevelant in AH. And if they want them to be prevelant, there needs to be a separate dar so people can find action. Or something to show there is a tank battle going on.
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Offline caldera

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2017, 01:22:41 PM »
I don't tank at all, but don't mind others that do.  However, when a base is flashing and there is a single air con or set of 20k buffs; there could also be one or more ground vehicles that are difficult to spot and therefore virtually invisible to fighter aircraft.  There is no darbar for GVs and that gives a huge advantage to them.
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Offline 8thJinx

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2017, 02:25:32 PM »
So I should stop single-sortie M-3 deack/troop drop runs to vehicle bases and ports?  I don't think it's as big an issue as folks believe, because 50% of the time a tank will up and get me.

FYI, even though you can deack a town/v-base/port with a jeep, you can also up a plane and kill it with one burst. 
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Offline wil3ur

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2017, 02:52:22 PM »
I prefer a target rich environment, more tears to satiate my unending thirst.  Horde on my brothers!

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Offline Delirium

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2017, 08:03:50 PM »
There is no darbar for GVs and that gives a huge advantage to them.

That is a brilliant idea! Adding another darbar (not dotdar) for GVs would definitely promote more combat.

It would have to be tied to another structure besides radar, like an outpost (put a few tents into a small area) that can be destroyed to blind the defenders. If the outposts were placed near the tank spawns, they would still be able to mount an offensive without the need for air support. It would also give defenders a small window to see and counter attack before the attackers could overwhelm the base.
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Offline JimmyD3

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2017, 09:18:23 PM »
This quote would probably not mesh with the tactics used in ;
Blitzkrieg is a method of warfare whereby an attacking force, spearheaded by a dense concentration of armoured and motorised or mechanised infantry formations
or
The Battle of 73 Easting was a decisive tank battle fought on 26 February 1991, during the Gulf War

Tanks were not the support, they were the hammer.

+1
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2017, 12:18:35 AM »
Adding another darbar (not dotdar) for GVs would definitely promote more combat.

I asked about this a while back and HT seemed in favor of the idea - that is, letting people know that there were tanks in a certain area so GVs could know where a ground fight is.  A darbar for tanks would help quite a bit in this regard.  Another idea would be to have the GV spawn arrow flash red when a GV has spawned into your base.  Unfortunately a flashing base doesn't tell you the nature of the threat, when it realistically probably should.

In my opinion, a combination of things has made GVing far more favorable in AH3, but made things worse for game play:

1) We now have considerably more trees in AH3.  This greatly favors GVs trying to move around undetected.  Of, course this is not very realistic, without tracks showing where a tank moved, or roads allowing for much faster movement.  Now tanks just roll through dense forests mostly with impunity and hit the E key anytime an enemy is nearby, instantly becoming virtually undetectable from the air or ground.

2) The shortened GV icon range that was lowered in AH2 persists in AH3, where it is now far less needed.  It was shortened in AH2 to make it easier for tanks to move undetected and reward tanks for successfully scurrying from cover to cover (of which there was considerably less in AH2). Now there is literally cover everywhere, extending right up to and even ON TO the bases.  This makes it easy for GVs to roll right onto bases, kill a VH or camp runways/spawns.  If there is a single air con in the sector, they can do this without anyone knowing.  So, I would strongly recommend the GV icon ranges also be increased back to somewhere closer to the earlier AH2 settings.

3) With tanks now able to roll right onto enemy bases, the ineffective layout of base guns really should be addressed.  There are gun pits that have virtually no field of fire approaching the base (toward the enemy).  Many gun's field of fire, particularly off the field, are extremely limited or even completely obscured by stands of trees literally yards from the gun pits.  This is particularly bad for V-bases and Ports, which have no other defensive options once the VH down or camped. In addition, the new elevated 17-lb gun positions don't even have the depression to fire at tanks on the base, when they can finally see them.  This allows for the current game-play, where GVs roll right onto an enemy base, unseen in their approach, camp a VH/spawn, wait for a few uppers to kill and then run away back into the trees without ever being seen.

I think a GV "dar-bar" would be an improvement, but addressing these other 3 items would help with gameplay as well.

Bear in mind, I am someone who likes to play in GVs.  I was the one who suggested (wish-listed) and advocated for the original reduction in GV icon range in AH2, making it dymamic based on whether you are moving or under cover.  I also strongly believe the game should be about combat and not hours of "hide and seek" to no avail, which the current layout favors.  I think this combination of issues is enough to warrant a change.

My two cents.

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« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 12:25:35 AM by Kingpin »
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Offline hgtonyvi

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2017, 02:51:32 AM »
Yea flak icons needs to be visible at longer range. I can see a jeep icon far away and a jeep is smaller than a wirb or ost. I don't mind gvs but wirbs and ost needs a better visible icon range.

Offline Zygote404

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2017, 08:03:11 AM »
My take on the balance from the perspective of an old AH1'r, an out of hours player (Australia) and a relative newb (3 weeks back):

1. As said above trees suck, there are too many for GVs to hide in and they make spotting a GV without icon extremely difficult.  They as interfere with GV's firing on objects and guns in bases firing on vehicles. 

2. Some GV icons being visible at such short ranges makes it difficult to bomb, as a newb anyway.   I end up buzzing the vehicle constantly trying to get a lock on its position and then losing it whenever I grab alt to bomb him. 

3.  Depending which side you're on holding bases in lower population times is quite difficult and taking bases is very very hard or the opposite.   No real penalty for overloaded teams (ENY seems to do little the way its implemented) means the balance is so far out its often a case of sitting in tower looking for a random dar bar or trying to climb over a horde to snipe before dying horribly.

4. ENY is not working since a lot of a planes ENY values are questionable.   The P40s  only 5 ENY more than some of the P51, P47, Spits, Yaks, LA5, and Hogs which are a lot lot more effective.    The perked planes are still relatively expensive (262 at 50) when you have 7 people on vs a combined 40 in both other countries which are predictably attacking the weakest country.

My ideas for solutions would be:

* Reduce the number of tree's around bases and the general number of tree's in terrain.
* Redo ENY values of planes to represent their relative strengths based on usage.
* Attach ENY to hardness value of objects.   In a 30 vs 10 situation, which is everyday around my playtime instead of 2 tanks taking out the town you'll need 6 or 3 x the usual.   
* Increase GV icon range
* Stick a small villager dar around dwellings / huts in terrain.  If a GV enters that its added to darbar or GVbar.

 

Offline JunkyII

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2017, 08:11:39 AM »
Been saying it for years....M3 resupply is the most damaging aspect to game play in Aces High and has been for about 4 years....people who are all about the war use it to save bases without actually fighting for them and after a field is taken it's too easy to just reset it and end a fight there...the first 15-20 minutes after losing a field and trying to get it back used to be one the best parts of the game...that doesn't happen anymore.
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Offline BowHTR

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2017, 08:24:23 AM »
Been saying it for years....M3 resupply is the most damaging aspect to game play in Aces High and has been for about 4 years....people who are all about the war use it to save bases without actually fighting for them and after a field is taken it's too easy to just reset it and end a fight there...the first 15-20 minutes after losing a field and trying to get it back used to be one the best parts of the game...that doesn't happen anymore.

Could always drop the VH... That's how it used to be done.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2017, 09:48:40 AM »
Could always drop the VH... That's how it used to be done.
This is the same stupid argument that gets brought up every time we talk M3 resupply being OP....the reason it's OP is because it's faster to resupply troops and supplies at an adjacent field then resupply a town, then it is to kill troops or VH at an adjacent field then kill town and get troops in....there is no sense coming with that argument of yours...if you want to talk about how it "used to be done"...town couldn't be resupplied and the fights for bases were a lot more intense instead of hunting nerds who like to take a little drive through the trees and drop supplies OUTSIDE of town and resupply it...

It is single worst part of Aces High's game play, it's a guaranteed fix if you get rid of it to a lot of game play issues in the MA(hide and seek hordes, rolling bases without fighting, holding bases without fighting)...followed by the ability to shoot 88s and 5 inchers at enemy planes who are fighting  their friendlies in close combat.

There is no other gameplay issue greater other then things which cause frame rates...everything else is "fine"
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Offline BowHTR

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2017, 09:55:36 AM »
This is the same stupid argument that gets brought up every time we talk M3 resupply being OP....the reason it's OP is because it's faster to resupply troops and supplies at an adjacent field then resupply a town, then it is to kill troops or VH at an adjacent field then kill town and get troops in....there is no sense coming with that argument of yours...if you want to talk about how it "used to be done"...town couldn't be resupplied and the fights for bases were a lot more intense instead of hunting nerds who like to take a little drive through the trees and drop supplies OUTSIDE of town and resupply it...

It is single worst part of Aces High's game play, it's a guaranteed fix if you get rid of it to a lot of game play issues in the MA(hide and seek hordes, rolling bases without fighting, holding bases without fighting)...followed by the ability to shoot 88s and 5 inchers at enemy planes who are fighting  their friendlies in close combat.

There is no other gameplay issue greater other then things which cause frame rates...everything else is "fine"

I think your making it bigger than what it is Junky. Either way, it doesn't bother me. If I don't want them to resupply the base, I simply drop the VH. If you can't take the base within the 15 mins that the VH is down, then the mission was not planned properly.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 09:57:48 AM by BowHTR »
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Offline atlau

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Re: the balance is out of whack
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2017, 10:25:14 AM »
Most bases would require you to drop multiple VHs simultaneously to prevent resupply. With limited numbers youre just taking more people out of the main fight by doing so. Not optimal for gameplay.