Disillusioned with Japanese tools

[nrshida]

Along the way I've sort of picked up the cultural implication that certain Japanese things are 'better' than their western equivalents. I've had several Japanese planes & saws for many years. The latter do tend to cut faster as you remove less material. Recently had a lot of trouble with a certain prototyping material which warped the blade, then you're in heaps of trouble because there's no room to correct the cut as there would be with a Western saw. Had to break out my old broken hacksaw blade collection.

Then recently I was given a Japanese kitchen knife, left side of the blade is flat and the right side makes the edge. Having used 'French' kitchen knives forever I was a bit dissapointed. The Japanese knife can turn into your left fingers if you're not careful and the handle is ghastly. it's a bit like a broom handle. Can't tell anything about the blade from it and there's too much space between it and the edge.

Also when you put the knife down it's logical to rest the chisel side down to keep the tip off the worktop. But then the edge is always facing you asuming you're right handed. I think they made the wrong side flat. Even turned it round, held the tip and made some cuts and it felt better! 

Then I found these, a Siberian design. Anyone here used one?

[icepac]

This is a fine Japanese Tool.

A greco les paul John Sykes.

Good enough to usher in "the lawsuit era" when gibson got hold of one and found it better than their les pauls of the same time period.

Whether or not japanese is "better" depends most on the pride of the person who built it.

[Bizman]

My car mechanic told about a friend of his who had spent some time in Japan and bought a €200 kitchen knife as a souvenir. Long story short, at first uses he dropped it on the floor and it broke into several pieces. The knife had a lifetime warranty so he sent it back and after half a year or so got a new one. The story doesn't tell what material the blade was made of, nevertheless a sword with similar blade quality might have made some Samurai run for his life.

[nrshida]

I had a similar story from a friend Bizman only the kitchen knife in that story turned out to be ceramic. A friend dropped it and put a chip along the edge. Bummer.

Walter Sorrels had a nice go at a sushi knife. Laminated an old wrought iron anchor chain link with some modern tool steel:-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=928dirLgZvU


Those guitars Icepac, are therefore a copy of a Western design but implemented to a higher standard? Craftsmanship very much appreciated in some cultures. The one I presently live in not unfortunately. Sort of the opposite of the Japanese culture it seems.

A guitar playing friend of mine once told me about the Steinberger guitars, an attempt at redesign rather than copying or evolving a known form. I think the one in picture is ironically a copy 




Ever played or heard one of those? What's the general opinion? Heard Eddie Van Halen liked them.



 

[icepac]

Lots of Hohners were made in japan but I know nothing on the steinberger types like that one.

Prince played a "lawsuit" telecaster made in japan.

This one's priced over 4000 dollars.



You might find that many guitars by "american companies" are made in japan, indonesia, thailand, china, korea.....etc.

Japan stuff seems to be a lot more consistent with quality while the other country product is more up to the company policy overseeing the production line as well as the individual person building them.

The jig is up on getting quality for cheap out of japan and prices are insane but doing research and checking out things in person can net you a gem even from a korean factory.

[Bizman]

even from a korean factory

???

I've learned that Korea is nowadays doing the quality cheap production, China, Indonesia, Malaysia and the rest being the low tier makers. Japan isn't that cheap anymore, on the other hand it has gained a good reputation. Think about computer parts: "Japanese capacitors" is a marketing slogan for outstanding quality.

As for laminated knives, a friend once told that old saw chains are good raw material for blades since they contain both soft and hard steel. Just heat and forge them for a nice Damascus steel type blade.

[zack1234]

Japan is like Germany built on myths

If Britain had been getting subsidised for the past 60 years by the USA we would make more than big macs

[pipz]

Disappointments many. I thought this was going to be a Ki-84 discussion. 

[DaveBB]

A knife is just a sharp piece of metal you cut stuff with.  I still use a knife I bought from The Dollar Tree six years (for $1) to cut my steaks.

[icepac]

Japan is like Germany built on myths

If Britain had been getting subsidised for the past 60 years by the USA we would make more than big macs

People worldwide will go to great lengths to get a genuine lister CS diesel.............sad they stopped making them as the copies require a lot of work to be useful.

Britain still makes the baddest race cars with most every formula one team having a facility there.

[nrshida]

Disappointments many. I thought this was going to be a Ki-84 discussion. 

To be fair the one I fly is made in America. Just got to get the defective WEP sorted. Application sent in already. Two weeks from reaching the top of the pile I expect 

A knife is just a sharp piece of metal you cut stuff with.  I still use a knife I bought from The Dollar Tree six years (for $1) to cut my steaks.

End of the day knives and swords are just sharpened bars of steel, true. Lot of people fussy about their tools and imlements though. As much depth as your budget and interest / need allows. Once I saw a surgical procedure on human eyes. They use hyper-expensive flint scalpels. I heard it was something like 16 microns minimum edge on high carbon steel but something like 4 with the knapped flint. Must be hand-crafted by someone somewhere.

[Skuzzy]

<snip>
End of the day knives and swords are just sharpened bars of steel, true. <snip>

I think a swordsmith producing a katana may take offense to that.

[NatCigg]

Japan is like Germany built on myths

If Britain had been getting subsidised for the past 60 years by the USA we would make more than big macs

if im not mistaken, the RR was a big part of zacks avatar in his younger years. before the vespa took precedence.

 

I guess thats what happens when a guy retires from driving and now rides scooters to the shops! 

p.s. yes, zack is a butler.  why else would he be so educated! 

[nrshida]

I think a swordsmith producing a katana may take offense to that.

Hmmm, well I think technically those old things are bars of iron with nodules of steel since the Japanese forges couldn't reach a high enough temperature to make homogeneous steel. Therefore they are heterogeneous but I think the old smiths wouldn't be offended recognising what a thing was, elementally.

 

[Skuzzy]

Might want to read about the making of the katana.  There are a number of sources on the net to read about the making of one.

The short of it is this; They are made from two different steels.  The carbon content is less for the core steel, making it stronger, while the outer steel is produced with a very high carbon content making it very hard.

The process is a long one as the steel is beat into thin layers and folded (approximately a dozen times) in order to control the carbon content.

It really is a fascinating to study how it is made.  Today's katana, made in the traditional method, takes about 15 people six months to make and can costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.