Author Topic: ENY values need to be adjusted (Read 559 times)

Karnak · « **on:** September 10, 2001, 03:03:00 AM »

ENY values show little sense of order after the top few aircraft.

Look at this:

N1K2-J: 15.52% of fighter kills, ENY: 10
Spitfire Mk IX: 11.70% of fighter kills, ENY: 13
P-51D: 9.30% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
La-7: 8.55% of fighter kills, ENY: 15
F4U-1D: 5.10% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
Bf 109G-10: 4.14% of fighter kills, ENY: 22
SpitV: 3.90% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Typhoon IB: 3.69% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
P-38L: 3.29% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
F6F-5: 3.11% of fighter kills, ENY: 22
Fw190D-9: 3.10% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
A6M5b: 3.06% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Ki-61: 2.57% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
SeaFire: 2.46% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Fw 190A-5: 2.26% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Yak-9U: 1.99% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Fw 190A-8: 1.57% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
C.205: 1.40% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
P-47-D30: 1.27% of fighter kills, ENY: 29
Bf 109G-6: 1.21% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
Bf 109G-2: 0.98% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
P-47D-11: 0.90% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
P-51B: 0.80% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Bf 109F-4: 0.76% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
La-5FN: 0.64% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
P-47-D25: 0.62% of fighter kills, ENY: 31
Yak-9T: 0.59% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
C.202: 0.29% of fighter kills, ENY: 50
Fw 190F-8: 0.26% of fighter kills, ENY: 25

Wouldn't it make more sense for the ENY to become steadily larger as the usage became lower?

Like this:

N1K2-J: 15.52% of fighter kills, ENY: 10
Spitfire Mk IX: 11.70% of fighter kills, ENY: 13
P-51D: 9.30% of fighter kills, ENY: 15
La-7: 8.55% of fighter kills, ENY: 16
F4U-1D: 5.10% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
Bf 109G-10: 4.14% of fighter kills, ENY: 20
SpitV: 3.90% of fighter kills, ENY: 22
Typhoon IB: 3.69% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
P-38L: 3.29% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
F6F-5: 3.11% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Fw190D-9: 3.10% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
A6M5b: 3.06% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Ki-61: 2.57% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
SeaFire: 2.46% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Fw 190A-5: 2.26% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Yak-9U: 1.99% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Fw 190A-8: 1.57% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
C.205: 1.40% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
P-47-D30: 1.27% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
Bf 109G-6: 1.21% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
Bf 109G-2: 0.98% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
P-47D-11: 0.90% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
P-51B: 0.80% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
Bf 109F-4: 0.76% of fighter kills, ENY: 45
La-5FN: 0.64% of fighter kills, ENY: 45
P-47-D25: 0.62% of fighter kills, ENY: 45
Yak-9T: 0.59% of fighter kills, ENY: 45
C.202: 0.29% of fighter kills, ENY: 50
Fw 190F-8: 0.26% of fighter kills, ENY: 50

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

janjan · « **Reply #1 on:** September 10, 2001, 07:30:00 AM »

Hmm, should the eny value really be just from popularity?

For instance 190F is not any worse plane than A8 and p47 usage is divided in 3 almost identical planes - hence shows less popular than it really is. All p47s make about 3% - about the same as zeke.

All the planes that have many submodels are like that.

Karnak · « **Reply #2 on:** September 10, 2001, 08:07:00 AM »

janjan,

That may be, but I think that the perk system should be used to encourage the use of rarer aircraft, even if there are more used versions of that airframe that are more common.

For example, fighting a Bf109F-4 is much different than fighting a Bf109G-10.

Urchin · « **Reply #3 on:** September 10, 2001, 10:53:00 AM »

I agree, those values do need to be adjusted.

StSanta · « **Reply #4 on:** September 10, 2001, 10:59:00 AM »

Excellent initiative karnak <S!>

BeeJay · « **Reply #5 on:** September 10, 2001, 11:25:00 AM »

If ENY is supposed to be some measure of a plane's "worth", I think you should use the kills/killed ratio instead of just kills.

Paxil · « **Reply #6 on:** September 10, 2001, 12:30:00 PM »

I agree with BeeJay... I'm not sure you should base the values on the % of kills by a particular plane... that just shows which planes are most popular... I would think that looking at K/D ratio of a plane would give a more accurate reading. The Spit MK IX that is 2nd on the chart above, routinely has a 1 to 1 K/D ratio. Of course... the quality of the pilots flying a particular plane would bring it up or drag it down a bit. HMmm... actually, I guess it depends on what this value is supposed to encourage. Does it tries to encourage use in a wide variety of planes, or adjust PP based on the strength of the planes... or both? I suppose the best way might be to take 1/3 from K/D ratio, 1/3 from kills and 1/3 a subjective ranking. Anyway... the values sure have confused me too.

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Paxil ]

Lephturn · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2001, 12:36:00 PM »

I like your approach Karnak.

I think the ENY values should be based PURELY on popularity. Really performance will factor into the popularity numbers anyway. I just want the Perk system to encourage a nice wide range of planes up flying in AH. The more rare a plane, the higher it's ENY. Works for me.

Optimally, I'd like to see an automated system that adjusts the ENY values based on popularity at the start of each tour using the numbers from the one that ends. That would rock.

Lephturn

Paxil · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2001, 01:06:00 PM »

Actually... now that I think a bit more about it... I like Lephturn's idea... based strictly on usage... and they could even be dynamic. (Or set at the end of every tour)

Nifty · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2001, 01:11:00 PM »

If you're going to go based on popularity, forget fighter kill % and go with another stat that we just can't see via the web stuff. # of sorties of the plane. That would give a clearer indication of how often the plane is used. Popularity should take into account how often the plane is used, and not just against fighters. You gotta include against bombers because you get perkies for shooting them down and you get perkies for flying in attack roles and damaging GVs and ground targets. That's what ENY is all about, the perk points.

Another option would be total time in flight for a model instead of just # of sorties.

EDIT - to add reasoning as to why more than just fighter kills need to be factored in.

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Nifty ]

Airscrew · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2001, 02:40:00 PM »

# of sorties may not be the answer either. Selecting the plane and spawning on the flightline or hanger and then change your mind or find out you forgot to load the rockets or you want to change planes so you return to tower, still counts as a sortie even though you didnt take off.

Nifty · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2001, 03:11:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AirScrew:
# of sorties may not be the answer either. Selecting the plane and spawning on the flightline or hanger and then change your mind or find out you forgot to load the rockets or you want to change planes so you return to tower, still counts as a sortie even though you didnt take off.

hence why I added the time in flight as another option.

# of sorties could be abused. Someone could sit at a base far from the action, spawn and end flight over and over again. hmm, make that someone WOULD do that.

Flight time would be a much better alternative then.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2001, 04:02:00 PM »

Look at the numbers and figure out for yourself if ENY dictates usage in any form. The lowest ENY is the highest used plane.

The ENY should be based primarily on ability.

To be honest, its a moot point. Before arguing ENY it may be worth it to get a perk plane people actually want to fly.

AKDejaVu

Hristo · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2001, 05:00:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lephturn:
Optimally, I'd like to see an automated system that adjusts the ENY values based on popularity at the start of each tour using the numbers from the one that ends. That would rock.

Lephturn

Excellent idea.

But how about updating it constantly 24/7 ? It wouldn't be so hard to code, would it ?

funkedup · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2001, 05:04:00 PM »

Quote

But how about updating it constantly 24/7 ? It wouldn't be so hard to code, would it ?

They already did it once with WB, I'm sure they could do it again.

My favorite WB MA setup was RPS with adaptive score multipliers. Yummy.

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]