P47-M

[Zimme83]

ENY 5 for the -47M works fine, it has similar performance as the P-51. The -47N should be closer to being perked with almost the same performance as the M plus it can carry 2500lbs of bombs and 10 rockets.

But the M-jug is still kind of a one trick bird, you can BnZ and take snap shots but once you run out of E there are a number of other fighters that outperforms it. And it depends on WEP for speed, non WEP performance is unimpressive.

Perking the 3 gun La is one thing, then you can still fly the plane, although with less firepower, but perking planes should not be done unless they tip the balance of the game, like the C-hog did. And the Jug isnt a plane that does that.

[BuckShot]

The 51D should be perked before the 47M....

[DmonSlyr]

The 190 has a higher impact on the game than the others mentioned. The reason is because it's fast, can dive fast, and can accelerate quickly. It has 500 cannons. But the #1 reason why it's more successful than the La7/spit16/yak and others is that, since everyone knows its not meant for turning, players do not get low and slow as easily. They do not get mixed up low in furballs turning  and burning like the others. This plane is a lot more deadly in the right hands then all the others because it can simply extend away from any trouble much more easier and it doesn't get tangled up. It creates boring gameplay. No one wants to fight players in 190s every sortie. No one wants to chase 190Ds, and no one wants to get BnZed for 10 minutes. The more people that fly this plane at one time, the more the fun gets sucked away. 1000 more kills than than the P47M with close on the same K/D. That's what you have to look at.

[Zygote404]

     Perking planes, I believe degrades from the positive marketing aspect of the game for beginners.   Brand new players aquire  very few perk points in the first few weeks of participation but have to go against.
  the A-team with the High End planes, and get shot to pieces, frustrated and I'm certain many quit.   I think  ENY does  what it is basically supposed too, but could use some tweaking.  Although with something as complex as this, there are holes in any process.   perk points don't keep most veterans from upping a plane.  With a steady supply coming in and a mass banked, So maybe perking is not the best solution, changing ENY may be.      I  went 26  for 7 Yesterday  with an  F4U1 " ENY25". The losses  3 collisions 2 ditches   2 abshuesses, 1 from a lanc and 1 from a Marauder. And My K/D ration is rarely much more than 1to1.  3  victories were   1 Razorback -11 and 2 Jugs a -40 and an M.  Also virtually all my 262 and 234 vics are with P47s and Spit XIVs.

Its very likely the opposite.  Not perking planes degrades the new user experience. 

Item progression is an important part of game development and provides goals for newer players that keep them interested and in game.   Providing every item to a player immediately is one of the worst things a game developer can do.  The reason for this is simple - if you provide a player in a fantasy mmo with 10 swords of varying power the player will always choose the most powerful and will miss out on developing their skills with the other 9 swords.   The player will get bored (nothing to acquire or work towards) and leave.

EvE online is a good example of item progression.  I played with for 15 years.  You start out with almost no skillpoints and only able to fly a frigate, the remaining other hundred or so ships can take weeks to a few years to be able to pilot.  EvE has incredible player retention because of this.

In AH if you give new players a Spit V, Spit 8, Spit 9, Spit 14 and Spit 16 you'll find most players will likely just use the 16 (its the latest) and will fail to learn or try the other spits.  Getting access to a new Spit as a progression goal is non-existent.   

Most new players in a Spit 16 will be slaughtered as easily (or more easily) than if they were to use a Spit V or Spit 9.   

The same goes for most other earlier versions of planes - against any vet you're likely better off in a early war version with its better turning ability if you're a newbie because that's what most newbies are going to do, turn fight. 

[AAIK]

EvE online is a good example of item progression.  I played with for 15 years.  You start out with almost no skillpoints and only able to fly a frigate, the remaining other hundred or so ships can take weeks to a few years to be able to pilot.  EvE has incredible player retention because of this.

This is something that needs to be discussed here more, it is one of those truths that need to be dealt with.

[Zoney]

OK, for the purpose of discussion, hell no.

Skill points?  No.

Limiting new players in aircraft?  No.

And the point that these features give you player retention?  Show me that's the reason, not other aspects of the game, these are the 2 things that really keep folks logging in.  Prove it.

[AAIK]

OK, for the purpose of discussion, hell no.

Skill points?  No.

Limiting new players in aircraft?  No.

And the point that these features give you player retention?  Show me that's the reason, not other aspects of the game, these are the 2 things that really keep folks logging in.  Prove it.

Only the part I quoted is of value. It is a known fact that accumulated achivements and objects tie people to situations and experiences. Heck, even in UO (ultima online, one of the first MMO games) people still subscribe due to the fact they have a house full of virtual objects that took a long time to find, yet don't even play the game other then to refresh their propery (keep it from dissapearing).

[Wiley]

Only the part I quoted is of value. It is a known fact that accumulated achivements and objects tie people to situations and experiences. Heck, even in UO (ultima online, one of the first MMO games) people still subscribe due to the fact they have a house full of virtual objects that took a long time to find, yet don't even play the game other then to refresh their propery (keep it from dissapearing).

Counterpoint: Counterstrike.  Other than cosmetics, the gear you have access to on day 1 is the gear you have access to on day 1000.

Wiley.

[AAIK]

Counterpoint: Counterstrike.  Other than cosmetics, the gear you have access to on day 1 is the gear you have access to on day 1000.

Wiley.

As we have seen from team fortress 2, is that cosmentics go a long way, some skins and collectables being worth a bit of money and people play to own particular cosmetic items. This is apparent in Counter-strike Global offensive. These games have proven that owning things has its own particular culture surrounding the intent/concept (The hats in TF2 being a meme/sensastion all in its own).

[Wiley]

Yes, but there's no item progression, just cosmetics.  The gameplay's identical.

You don't need to work your way through gear, it's just one method of making a game addictive.

Wiley.

[AAIK]

We are talking about things that make people stick to the game longer, not the gameplay.

More people play and stay due to the cosmetics (achiveables) in those games.

[waystin2]

We are talking about things that make people stick to the game longer, not the gameplay.

More people play and stay due to the cosmetics (achiveables) in those games.

No, we are talking about perking the P47M or changing it's ENY and you are changing the discussion.  You are trying to make it into a dead subject conversation.

[AAIK]

No, we are talking about perking the P47M or changing it's ENY and you are changing the discussion.  You are trying to make it into a dead subject conversation.

LOL, guess I got stuck into the convo a bit much, will make a thread for it instead of derailing any further!

[Zygote404]

On the P47-M I don't have much of an issue with it.  Then again I usually BnZ / vertical turn fight and I fly the TA mostly.  LA's, Yak3, KI84 I find much more dangerous than the 47-M.

[Petey]

the 47 M is already at a disadvantage...... I fly it.