Author Topic: M3 Effectiveness.....  (Read 32212 times)

Offline Wiley

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #105 on: September 26, 2017, 01:18:47 PM »
Quote
Quite a conundrum for Hitech. 

Not particularly.  The M3s seem to be doing what they do.  Those of us that don't like it are vocal, but not that numerous.  Apparently it's a popular feature.

Wiley.
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Online Lazerr

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #106 on: September 26, 2017, 01:38:55 PM »
It cuts down on action in the arena, especially at low population hours.

Action attracks new players.. maybe im wrong in assuming new folks wont consider playing whack a mole with someone running supplies for 14.95 a month.

What did we do back in the good ole days when supplying a base wasnt an option?

Wirbs.. tanks.. planes... from the base under attack and the next one back. 

Offline Wiley

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #107 on: September 26, 2017, 01:43:51 PM »
Case in point.

Wiley.
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Offline popeye

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #108 on: September 26, 2017, 02:08:54 PM »
Action attracks new players.. maybe im wrong in assuming new folks wont consider playing whack a mole with someone running supplies for 14.95 a month.

You might think that people pay for action, but there is much evidence to the contrary:  stealth TG base capture, high flying buffs attacking Strats (then bailing), suicide jabos killing radar and ordnance to inhibit field defense, GVs killing the VH and ack then camping the field, buffs deacking Vbases for sneaks, suicide bombers killing CVs to stop an attack, a horde deacking a field to suppress defenders, etc., etc.  It seems that a lot players are dedicated to base capture which can often be accomplished best with tactics that inhibit or avoid "action".  The action-killing effect is only magnified during low-number times.

That said, everyone gets to decide what to do with their $14.95.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 02:10:43 PM by popeye »
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Offline Ramesis

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #109 on: September 26, 2017, 02:56:20 PM »
You might think that people pay for action, but there is much evidence to the contrary:  stealth TG base capture, high flying buffs attacking Strats (then bailing), suicide jabos killing radar and ordnance to inhibit field defense, GVs killing the VH and ack then camping the field, buffs deacking Vbases for sneaks, suicide bombers killing CVs to stop an attack, a horde deacking a field to suppress defenders, etc., etc.  It seems that a lot players are dedicated to base capture which can often be accomplished best with tactics that inhibit or avoid "action".  The action-killing effect is only magnified during low-number times.

That said, everyone gets to decide what to do with their $14.95.

Amen to that
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Offline bustr

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #110 on: September 26, 2017, 03:08:03 PM »
Now you are highlighting another conundrum of our game.

During peak hours with 150-200 players the M3 is just another part of the game. Some players remember to wipe them out during a base capture, some don't and the capture stalls. No biggie, and the game rolls on. The strongest complaints have been from off-peak time players with numbers closer to 75 and air combat only players. In effect two very different games due to the time period. So the off-peak players are trying to convince Hitech to change the game to suit them and believe the peak time players will get over it and move along with the change "obediently". Since the current game only has the functions to make changes that are 24x7 for everyone during all time slots. Obediently is an interesting assumption of faith on their part, unless they figure Hitech will take the storm and they will get what they want.

Gotta admit lately there have been some number of complaints from the off-peak and air combat only players asking Hitech to change the game away from where he has spent the last decade evolving it. So the conundrum has a number of directions. Invest the cost and time to create a morph process that changes the game into a small numbers, small land mass area, air combat focused game during low-peak times stripped of the things complained about. Or, change the full time game to this eliminating everything that the low-peak and air combat vocal proponents dictate is killing the game. An undercurrent of sentiment by a number of them indicates they believe the game will die if Hitech doesn't force all of his customers to fly and fight in the air like they wish for.   

Or, invest the time to change the game back end to be more dynamic so at some low-peak number threshold, suddenly no M3, no GV, no ack, and only several bases 13-19 miles apart will launch players. And for good measure in the spirit of this, flying outside of the operational area of those several bases disables your guns "for running away". After all players are unceremoniously warped to those bases when the threshold function burps in. They can sit in the tower, fight, or log off and find another game to play. Can't help but see the parallels to changing the Melee arena into a giant old school DA arena from AH2's glory days. But, those voicing the complaints won't want to admit to that as the distilled down result of their complaints. Once again they don't know if this is what all the other peak and off-peak time players want to log into for their $14.95, they only really know about their own $14.95. Personal projection with anecdotal evidence to roll out product changes is not a good business model I've been told.

So, lets see, the game is dying this time because of man-able and auto ack, M3's as uber resupply trucks with Romulan cloaking devices, and because the game is not about manning up and only fighting in the air 24x7. Sure looks like the old DA if you eliminate and implement all of that. There has been a small but vocal group since AH2 advocating for exactly this. They do not like many of the other functions and none aircraft objects Hitech has introduced over the years getting in the way of their only stated reason to play the game, Air Combat. And they want Hitech to make everyone else play the game their way because otherwise, he is killing his game in their opinion.

The off-peak time players have always had it rough with numbers, relatively, versus peak time. First, remove most of what is complained about killing the game this time around from the argument. Those forced into off-peak time by location or work, have a legitimate concern of trying to play the game in a cricket town arena at much of the time. Some number of the vocal minority concerned with off-peak time and the outlined complaints, I also see them on during peak time. My impression of their peak time grousing, AH3 is not a massive air combat only arena, where the only activity allowable is upping aircraft to fight. But, when people are venting on VOX, range and 200, that's not the real them I guess. They are not venting about what they really want out of the game, they are just being iconic personalities we all admire. Hmmmm, something like "I am not the droid you are looking for in this argument"..... :lol   
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Offline 1stpar3

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #111 on: September 26, 2017, 03:24:39 PM »
Now you are highlighting another conundrum of our game.

During peak hours with 150-200 players the M3 is just another part of the game. Some players remember to wipe them out during a base capture, some don't and the capture stalls. No biggie, and the game rolls on. The strongest complaints have been from off-peak time players with numbers closer to 75 and air combat only players. In effect two very different games due to the time period. So the off-peak players are trying to convince Hitech to change the game to suit them and believe the peak time players will get over it and move along with the change "obediently". Since the current game only has the functions to make changes that are 24x7 for everyone during all time slots. Obediently is an interesting assumption of faith on their part, unless they figure Hitech will take the storm and they will get what they want.

Gotta admit lately there have been some number of complaints from the off-peak and air combat only players asking Hitech to change the game away from where he has spent the last decade evolving it. So the conundrum has a number of directions. Invest the cost and time to create a morph process that changes the game into a small numbers, small land mass area, air combat focused game during low-peak times stripped of the things complained about. Or, change the full time game to this eliminating everything that the low-peak and air combat vocal proponents dictate is killing the game. An undercurrent of sentiment by a number of them indicates they believe the game will die if Hitech doesn't force all of his customers to fly and fight in the air like they wish for.   

Or, invest the time to change the game back end to be more dynamic so at some low-peak number threshold, suddenly no M3, no GV, no ack, and only several bases 13-19 miles apart will launch players. And for good measure in the spirit of this, flying outside of the operational area of those several bases disables your guns "for running away". After all players are unceremoniously warped to those bases when the threshold function burps in. They can sit in the tower, fight, or log off and find another game to play. Can't help but see the parallels to changing the Melee arena into a giant old school DA arena from AH2's glory days. But, those voicing the complaints won't want to admit to that as the distilled down result of their complaints. Once again they don't know if this is what all the other peak and off-peak time players want to log into for their $14.95, they only really know about their own $14.95. Personal projection with anecdotal evidence to roll out product changes is not a good business model I've been told.

So, lets see, the game is dying this time because of man-able and auto ack, M3's as uber resupply trucks with Romulan cloaking devices, and because the game is not about manning up and only fighting in the air 24x7. Sure looks like the old DA if you eliminate and implement all of that. There has been a small but vocal group since AH2 advocating for exactly this. They do not like many of the other functions and none aircraft objects Hitech has introduced over the years getting in the way of their only stated reason to play the game, Air Combat. And they want Hitech to make everyone else play the game their way because otherwise, he is killing his game in their opinion.

The off-peak time players have always had it rough with numbers, relatively, versus peak time. First, remove most of what is complained about killing the game this time around from the argument. Those forced into off-peak time by location or work, have a legitimate concern of trying to play the game in a cricket town arena at much of the time. Some number of the vocal minority concerned with off-peak time and the outlined complaints, I also see them on during peak time. My impression of their peak time grousing, AH3 is not a massive air combat only arena, where the only activity allowable is upping aircraft to fight. But, when people are venting on VOX, range and 200, that's not the real them I guess. They are not venting about what they really want out of the game, they are just being iconic personalities we all admire. Hmmmm, something like "I am not the droid you are looking for in this argument"..... :lol
Nailed it, you have :aok
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Online Devil 505

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #112 on: September 26, 2017, 05:14:48 PM »
Bustr, you've boiled down the arguments into an extreme scenario that nobody wants - a furball only arena.

What I want to see is multifaceted air combat. But to have that, we need to give incentive to some of the current GV'ers to accomplish their goals in aircraft instead.   

I've said this all before.
want to kill a town - take a bomber, not a Calliope
need to capture a base - take a goon, not and M3
other GV's trying to capture your base - take an Il-2, not a tank
Tired of your tank getting killed by Il-2's - take a fighter, not a Wirb

As it stands, none of those aircraft options are the better option and game suffers because of it.

I really think that simply setting the GV icons back to 6.0K will fix most of what's broken in the current game.



« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 05:17:24 PM by Devil 505 »
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Offline bustr

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #113 on: September 26, 2017, 06:40:48 PM »
As long as they have GVs and spawns, you won't incentivize them. They are choosing to leave cockpits for tin cans because they like it. I removed vBases en-mass from my first terrain like so many terrains towards the end of AH2 were sporting thinking it would help them back into the air. I gave them a GV arena island just to see if they were so dedicated that it would always be filled. Instead, they follow all the activity they can in their tin cans as long as they have spawns. When they run out of spawns, they move to another location that does. Only a small number crosses over and they are known to like flying and GVing already by the community, the rest are an AH3 GVing community.

You have enough presence of mind to know a furball only game at this late date will not work for anyone to keep the game alive. The others who grouse and rant probably do, but, they don't care because they are not getting what they want from this game. So anything becomes a vehicle to tell Hitech the world is ending one more time without starting their own wish list post telling him exactly what is ticking them off or what they really want him to do about it. In the game grousing all comes out, make the Melee arena furballing only and ditch the rest I'm unhappy poop on you. Some go as far as the game will die because of GVs.

Junky has made a not unrealistic observation about how the M3 is used, then beat the ghost of the horse into dust with subsequent opportunities. The rest are piggy backing the process while waving the M3 banner to flutter cover for what they don't like and want. Black and white or extreme, no. Not convoluted to avoid being obvious, yes. This is not the U.N. and they are not trying to broker some multilateral extremely convoluted deal amongst nations. They want the game rolled back to some Halcyon Days of the game where all the AI and GVs were not as important to such a large part of the community for their personal game success. And do you think this forum community wouldn't talk smack about them if they just came out and took that position? Wouldn't it sound a lot like telling kids to get off their lawn......   
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Offline atlau

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #114 on: September 26, 2017, 10:24:28 PM »
Giving people more gameplay options is in my opinion better than taking them away. Many of the dedicated GVers would probably quit the game rather than fly planes.

In my opinion the best compromise is to have furball lake setup in the middle of the arenas with incapturable bases to allow the dedicated furballers to find a quick fight regardless of the current "war".

Online Lazerr

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #115 on: September 27, 2017, 01:04:57 AM »
Giving people more gameplay options is in my opinion better than taking them away. Many of the dedicated GVers would probably quit the game rather than fly planes.

In my opinion the best compromise is to have furball lake setup in the middle of the arenas with incapturable bases to allow the dedicated furballers to find a quick fight regardless of the current "war".

 :headscratch:

Offline Blinky

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #116 on: September 27, 2017, 01:12:53 AM »
Giving people more gameplay options is in my opinion better than taking them away. Many of the dedicated GVers would probably quit the game rather than fly planes.

In my opinion the best compromise is to have furball lake setup in the middle of the arenas with incapturable bases to allow the dedicated furballers to find a quick fight regardless of the current "war".
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Offline popeye

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #117 on: September 27, 2017, 07:58:08 AM »
In my opinion the best compromise is to have furball lake setup in the middle of the arenas with incapturable bases to allow the dedicated furballers to find a quick fight regardless of the current "war".

Seems to work well on the island map.  Even better if the bases were uncapturable and the radar and ack were unkillable.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 08:02:40 AM by popeye »
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Offline Biggamer

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #118 on: September 27, 2017, 09:51:48 AM »
The number of minutes each box takes off the times needs to be tied to the strats if town buildings are down for over 100 mins then 10 mins per box would be fine if town is only down 30 mins then 3 minutes per box. the way it is right now 2 people in a M3 can stop a 15 man mission in about 7 minutes time.   you want to know why people avoid combat and go for undefended bases this right here is why The M3 is way to effective.   there is many times we will see bombers IB to a base and up M3s drive them to town and as soon as his bombs impact bring it all up under him.   Why up to shoot him down when i can ruin his sortie with an M3.
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Online Lazerr

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Re: M3 Effectiveness.....
« Reply #119 on: September 27, 2017, 12:08:52 PM »
The number of minutes each box takes off the times needs to be tied to the strats if town buildings are down for over 100 mins then 10 mins per box would be fine if town is only down 30 mins then 3 minutes per box. the way it is right now 2 people in a M3 can stop a 15 man mission in about 7 minutes time.   you want to know why people avoid combat and go for undefended bases this right here is why The M3 is way to effective.   there is many times we will see bombers IB to a base and up M3s drive them to town and as soon as his bombs impact bring it all up under him.   Why up to shoot him down when i can ruin his sortie with an M3.

This is what has been suggested before and its perfect.  Folks get to run their supplies without the unbalanced effects on a few guys trying to get a fight rolling on a front.