WGr21 Rocket Pods

[Krusty]

Depends on which nation. Germans tried to hold onto their tanks only when they were operating in an area where German forces controlled the sky because they had so few of them. US escorts dropped them every time before any kind of combat because the stresses on the airframe and the wing would significantly degrade combat. They were also expendable and made from laminated paper so no loss was felt (unlike metal tanks). If you ran into combat, you dropped the tanks. That's the norm. Holding them was abnormal. In fact, if one of them hung on the wing it was dangerous and some planes would turn back or stay back from the fight if they couldn't dislodge it with sharp maneuvers.

For the WGr tubes, dropping them was not something done just because "enemies showed up" -- that's projecting your own desires for AH onto the real thing. The actual manuals that explain how to operate the explosive bolts warn not to use but in the most dire of circumstances (because the war materials were so scarce they couldn't replace them). That doesn't mean you want to dogfight with something so you drop them, which let's face it would be every single sortie in Aces High.

[EagleDNY]

Laminated Paper Drop Tanks were designed for one-time use - you did NOT come into land with them as it was expected they would be leaking by then.  If a mission was scrubbed they would drop the still full tanks in a dump near the field before landing.   A pretty amazing invention overall. 

[Mongoose]

Hitech himself has said that if he added it, it would be 100% every sortie used, instead of only in rare emergency cases, so he's not adding it. There should be a penalty if you choose to fly with them, and they stay after you fire.

Since they didn't jettison the tubes because it was so expensive, make it expensive in game.  Jettisoning the tubes costs 100 perk points.  For some folks that would give them negative perk points.  Now some people have lots of perks saved up, so you could make it 100 perk points, or half your perk points, whichever is greater. 

And no, this would not be applied to drop tanks, because drops tanks were meant to be dropped.

[Krusty]

Not sure the game is set up that way... Perks are tied to the sortie, not to the state of a weapon when you land. Because what if you KEEP the tubes and get shot down? You lose perks for not landing safely, but you never "used" the perks because the tubes were still on...

Perks don't work that way. You'd have to find a different way to "cost" something for the effort.

[icepac]

Asking HTC to address rocket pods and drop tank modeling will likely net you less performance since they are already too generous concerning drag and weight.

Test it yourself, be thankful when you realize this, and hope this thread sinks.

[Karnak]

Asking HTC to address rocket pods and drop tank modeling will likely net you less performance since they are already too generous concerning drag and weight.

Test it yourself, be thankful when you realize this, and hope this thread sinks.

Can't speak to other planes, but the drag numbers for the Mossie's external stores match the documented numbers exactly.

[haggerty]

circumstantial evidence, but in my 110 I did a shallow dive to match speed of TU-2's at 23k and hit the WEP.  3 sectors later I had only gained .5k on him.  Hitech's charts show I should have a top speed of about 368 in level flight vs his ~325.  I think those empty tubes hurt my speed quite a bit.  I wish I had saved the video see my actual top speed, if I remember right it was around 330.

I was able to catch him when he turned to land, but a base ack got my engine and the punk ended up finding me again 3 sectors away NOE and shot me down

Edit:  Just did some actual testing.

In offline practice I took a 110 with 25% fuel and rockets to 2k and leveled out.  Was able to get to 287mph IAS, then fired my rockets and was able to get up to 295mph.
I then took off without the rockets and acceleration was much faster after getting to 2k and was able to get to 310mph.  I probably wont be taking rockets anymore as a 15mph penalty on the deck is pretty brutal.

And just finished some A5 testing.  308 with rockets, 311 after firing, and 328 clean.  50% fuel.

[icepac]

If you want to go fast in a 110, the it's better to delete the gunpod.

[Karnak]

circumstantial evidence, but in my 110 I did a shallow dive to match speed of TU-2's at 23k and hit the WEP.  3 sectors later I had only gained .5k on him.  Hitech's charts show I should have a top speed of about 368 in level flight vs his ~325.  I think those empty tubes hurt my speed quite a bit.  I wish I had saved the video see my actual top speed, if I remember right it was around 330.

I was able to catch him when he turned to land, but a base ack got my engine and the punk ended up finding me again 3 sectors away NOE and shot me down

Edit:  Just did some actual testing.

In offline practice I took a 110 with 25% fuel and rockets to 2k and leveled out.  Was able to get to 287mph IAS, then fired my rockets and was able to get up to 295mph.
I then took off without the rockets and acceleration was much faster after getting to 2k and was able to get to 310mph.  I probably wont be taking rockets anymore as a 15mph penalty on the deck is pretty brutal.

And just finished some A5 testing.  308 with rockets, 311 after firing, and 328 clean.  50% fuel.

Yeah, this is why I never took the rockets on the Mossie VI.  The rails just had too much drag.  If I had to take external stores I took the 500lb bombs as the shackles only cost a few miles per hour once the bombs were gone, better was just taking the internal bombs.

Here is a link to the fighter-bomber performance spreadsheet I was working on.  It is incomplete, but perhaps some will find it interesting.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTP85JJmBiNrPhnxJhzS4C11POji_bXkxQg6bh8ajQqNpNn539zPLxoPw8o9CZN6rmt6VkwZ1TKJJnT/pubhtml

[Krusty]

Yes, the drag from the tubes has always been modeled. They're angled upward, so they're not just letting the air pass through. They're slamming into the airflow and slowing you down (that and the braces/struts).

If you want straight up speed on a 110G-2, definitely leave the gunpod at home, or take a Me410. The Me410 gets the gun packages but without the extra drag for anything up to the big gun. Only issue is the handling is different. On the plus side you get better top speed, though.

[haggerty]

If you want to go fast in a 110, the it's better to delete the gunpod.

Just tested without the gun pod, top speed is exactly the same.

[Krusty]

I thought there was quite a bit of drag modeled once upon a time. Did that get left out somewhere along the way?

[haggerty]

I'm not sure why they would be much drag at all, they appear pretty well molded into the fuselage.  Now the 109 gun pods I can see causing problems.

[Devil 505]

I'm not sure why they would be much drag at all, they appear pretty well molded into the fuselage.  Now the 109 gun pods I can see causing problems.

That is not what I'd call streamlined.

[haggerty]

That is not what I'd call streamlined.

I would, thats not much worse than the cockpit.