WGr21 Rocket Pods

[Karnak]

I would, thats not much worse than the cockpit.

Cockpits cause a lot of drag.  On the Spitfire, for example, the cockpit is (I don't recall which) the first or second largest source of drag, the radiator being the other.

[icepac]

Haggerty, my testing yielded very different results.

I tested ME110 in all configurations and fuel levels and waited long time periods for speed to stabilize during the testing.

I posted them here about 5 years ago.

[Vinkman]

That's just not true. Encountering the enemy = normal. Emergency = going down, damaged horribly, need to crash safely and need to get those off the wings. In AH terms if that's happening you've already been shot down.

P.S. Those "metal tubes" weren't cheap and they had a significant shortage of certain metals in Germany. As far as I recall: There was never a recorded case that those tubes were jettisoned like you describe.

Crusty your logic makes no sense. Plane and pilot easily out weigh the price of an empty Rocket holder. Stop digging. 

[Krusty]

Vink, the historic realities are what they were. You're trying to change the details to suit what you want. Just say you want it. Don't try to change why X was X, just say you want Y instead. And if you get denied, so be it.


Ice: Not sure about your testing, but ever since I've been playing the WGr tubes have added drag.

[Vinkman]

Vink, the historic realities are what they were. You're trying to change the details to suit what you want. Just say you want it. Don't try to change why X was X, just say you want Y instead. And if you get denied, so be it.


Ice: Not sure about your testing, but ever since I've been playing the WGr tubes have added drag.

I don't want anything, I'm a neutral observer. From what I can gleen from the Thread, the Rocket pods were jettisonable. The OP asked for them to be modelled so they were Jettisonable. Very logical.

Your answer was ~ 'They were so valuable in real life that pilots wouldn't drop them, Unless it was an "emergency." therefore in  AH they were modelled so they couldn't be dropped.'

That answer makes no logical sense to anyone who's read it as to why they can't be dropped in game. Are you sure that was HiTech's reason? 

[wil3ur]

If they use explosive bolts to release themselves from the airframe, this seems like a very dangerous thing to do, and would be something done only in extreme circumstances.

Can you imagine the stress on the wings a plane blowing off parts of it would take... some of these pilots doing multiple sorties a day.... just blowing up crap off their wings repeatedly.  I dunno, sounds like a bad idea.

OR!!!!

We could add the ability to release these, but also add in a %chance to cause critical damage to the wing upon activating the exploding bolts.   

[Vinkman]

If they use explosive bolts to release themselves from the airframe, this seems like a very dangerous thing to do, and would be something done only in extreme circumstances.

Can you imagine the stress on the wings a plane blowing off parts of it would take... some of these pilots doing multiple sorties a day.... just blowing up crap off their wings repeatedly.  I dunno, sounds like a bad idea.

OR!!!!

We could add the ability to release these, but also add in a %chance to cause critical damage to the wing upon activating the exploding bolts.   

Proof would help. What number of these were jettisoned in real life. What percent of the ones Jettisoned resulted in plane damage? How critical was the damage?   Then we could understand the proper modelling choice. 

[Vraciu]

Depends on which nation. Germans tried to hold onto their tanks only when they were operating in an area where German forces controlled the sky because they had so few of them. US escorts dropped them every time before any kind of combat because the stresses on the airframe and the wing would significantly degrade combat. They were also expendable and made from laminated paper so no loss was felt (unlike metal tanks). If you ran into combat, you dropped the tanks. That's the norm. Holding them was abnormal. In fact, if one of them hung on the wing it was dangerous and some planes would turn back or stay back from the fight if they couldn't dislodge it with sharp maneuvers.

For the WGr tubes, dropping them was not something done just because "enemies showed up" -- that's projecting your own desires for AH onto the real thing. The actual manuals that explain how to operate the explosive bolts warn not to use but in the most dire of circumstances (because the war materials were so scarce they couldn't replace them). That doesn't mean you want to dogfight with something so you drop them, which let's face it would be every single sortie in Aces High.

Allied drop tak use is a little more nuanced than this.  Initially they were metal and used for ferrying.   Over time they were used for escort missions and jettisoned, again metal first...paper later. 

[morfiend]

I did some testing last night and found that with the 4 rocket loadout you get a speed lost of aprox.30 mph once fired off the speed was just 20 mph slower. The 20mm gondie added aprox 4mph difference in speed.

 All tests were done at aprox FTH of 22700 ft where I got a max speed of 366 True,gondie gave 362,tubes were empty and the speed was 344,rockets in tubes gave 334. I did not test with both rockets and the 20mm gondie and I did not test with just a single rocket tube on each wing.....ran out of time!


   YMMV!


   

PS: I wont comment on whether they should be jettison-able or not as there simply isnt enough information on the subject,I do know explosive bolts were used and the pilot had to set a breaker to arm the switch but it's actual use is almost impossible to find anything on.

[USCH]

If this was a one life game i would say have at it... but ill tell you what will happen...

You will have everyone who can, learning how to HO with the rockets, then dumping the tubes if they miss, and trying to dogfight after...

I got good at using the rockets years ago on buffs (the intended purpose). Vary rarely in the MA do buffs have escorts. If they do your attack is different anyway. Unless you intend to reinvent the way you attack with them (coming from any other direction than 6 or 12 O'clock).

Also most any escort will not follow more than a few thousand feet under the bomber stream. Or away past 6k..

If you like the rockets fire at 1100ft or so (that's just before 1K turns to 1000) at 6 o'clock.

Or learn to use them at 12 0'clock. if escorts are present dive 2k lower after attack and 7k wide of the bombers... note the direction and fly out in front for another head on attack from 12 o clock high.. If escorts engage you try to drag them as far as possible and as low as possible away from the bombers as you use defencive maneuvers.

Does it suce we cant blow them off? Yes. But we cant blow off the Stukas wheels either. It would be abused. simple as that.

[haggerty]

I actually need to fire at 600-800 when attacking from the rear in order to get hits, but if I try that with APP75 i'm already missing a wing at 1.5k
For head on I get hits firing at 2k.

And for the Stuka, just clip a hanger after taking off, it will remove your wheels.

Here is my first kill in Aces High, three achievements

[icepac]

From behind, when you fire is also determined by your speed.

I am often coming in at 450mph so I fire at 1100....maybe more.

Coming in head on, I've been firing at 2500 when going 300mph head on to 300mph bombers.