Author Topic: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw  (Read 1079 times)

Offline Vraciu

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Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« on: September 03, 2017, 01:38:52 PM »
I think Fester is a good map.   Will it be tweaked and brought back?

As for Buzz...   It still needs work I guess.   Perhaps if it is supposed to appear on Fri-Sun it could be skipped.   I think new players will find it a bit frustrating.

Thoughts anyone?

 :salute
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Offline cav58d

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 01:48:28 PM »
I don't even bother with buzzsaw anymore.  Instant log.
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Online Devil 505

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 02:03:54 PM »
I don't even bother with buzzsaw anymore.  Instant log.

Yep. Wanted to fly last night. Logged in, saw Buzzsaw, Alt F4.
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Offline Lazerr

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 04:06:33 PM »
Had a bunch of fun on buzzsaw last night.  Are you rage logging before you notice the changes to the map?

Thanks for those changes btw htc.. while its still my least favorite  map.. it is much more playable.

Oboe's and busters new ones look great

Online Devil 505

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 04:18:57 PM »
The changes were half-baked. It's still terrible.
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Offline Lyme

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 04:19:59 PM »
Had a bunch of fun on buzzsaw last night.  Are you rage logging before you notice the changes to the map?

Thanks for those changes btw htc.. while its still my least favorite  map.. it is much more playable.

Oboe's and busters new ones look great

No, gave the new changes two months.  Still hate it.  Remove the GV spawns to the strats and maybe it is salvageable.

Offline Lazerr

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 04:30:27 PM »
Bummer.. you missed some great fights because a tank was hitting your strat.

That map does need some more air bases along the outer edge..

Offline puller

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 05:26:58 PM »
Had a bunch of fun on buzzsaw last night.  Are you rage logging before you notice the changes to the map?

Thanks for those changes btw htc.. while its still my least favorite  map.. it is much more playable.

Oboe's and busters new ones look great

This
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 11:24:49 AM »
The changes were half-baked. It's still terrible.

+1

Put the effort into Fester (fix the dar bars) and shelve Buzz for a bit until it gets fixed.  The outer islands seem to be wasted.   If all the bases were shifted outward that would be something. 
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 12:35:41 PM »
You can see how Buzz generates its fighting. The spawns to the depots are short runs for in most cases easy points/perks. This brings in the dive bombers looking for easy GV kills as well as more GVs looking to pick the guys milking for score. This also bring in the flying pickers looking to drop some easy targets that are in heavy looking for GVs. The bomber guys hit both the spawns and the hangers looking to spoil/slow down to porking of the depots.

The outer bases have no easy targets and so dont generate much action. It's kind of an "all or nothing type thing in the center of the map.

Offline bustr

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 01:46:12 PM »
Moving bases around on a finished terrain other than tweaking distances to fit the rules is almost impossible for the existing land masses if you have to maintain the same numbers of bases per country. Melee arena terrains the land masses less dictate the bases as the bases and the distances 19-25 miles dictate outcomes. Yes you see on maps bases almost 2 sectors or 45-50 miles. I'll venture that was a base placement with no where else to go to keep the number of bases on all three sides even.

The Fester terrain you would do better to see if Hitech will generate a make map of the terrain  with icons enabled in 4096x4096 because that terrain is a 20x20 sector. Then create a 2048x2048 bitmap where 8pixels will equal 1mile in the terrain editor. 4096x4096 is just two 2048x2048 or 10x10 terrains. So 1mile on the Fester 4096x4096 map will be one mile just like on your new 2048x2048. Grab the parts you like and copy\paste into your new 2048x2048. Fester pretty much made the three country layouts the same, so keeping to that will help you now adjust the base icons around to fit the 19-25 mile rule for airfield placement. Once you have your 2048x2048 bitmap adjusted to where you want the bases to be and your land masses are how you will want to see them. I can take that bitmap and convert it into a heightmap file that the terrain editor will import and give you basic land masses of 500ft elevation and oceans. Then you will have to sculpt away, or I think L3DT has a free version that only makes 2048x2048 heightmaps the terrain editor can import. L3DT will allow you to do the sculpting and has more tools to aid in that 3D construction effort. The AH3 terrain editor will let you do everything, in some ways it's like carving a copy of the David statue out of butter with a spoon.

You can get a copy of Easyscor's terrain building pdf for the Melee arena distances for everything. Then start trying to fit everything into the new smaller space 2048x2048. That's what I did with OCEANIA because at 4096x4096 it was just too big. Below is a screen shot of my master 1:1 blue print map of the 4096x4096 OCEANIA with the 2048x2048 cut out I turned into the current version I'm setting up bases on. The smaller terrain is a bit different because 2048x2048 forced it to be.


Original oceania before I realised it was too big.





2048x2048 cutout from the exisitng work for ocenaia.v2.




Current version with land finsihed. This is a CBM map I'm using to map spawns.




This is why you can't just change a map like Varicu and others so cavalierly throw out there. Those rings below are distance rulers you use in the terrain editor to make sure you are following the airfield distance rules. In my case predominately 19 miles and everything is fit equally to the terrain. It's easier moving vBases, ports and strats. Or adding new Flak bases. Building a new terrain will be easier, Waffle made his adjustments to buzzsaw look easy because he created the original heightmap file in L3DT. So he adjusted that and re-imported it under the existing terrain tiles to save time on terrain tile re-touchup painting. Moving air bases around has a domino effect where you have to touch more than just the few you want to move. And then you have to touch up everything you touched along with possibly re-sculpting the terrain in the 8sq miles around the new locations.

Even after I finished creating the whole terrain, once I lay in the bases, I always have up to an hour of touchup with each field that has GV spawns so GV combat is not bogged down in trees or the micro terrain. And the new bridges with a river I'm placing at some fields between the field and the spawns, sometimes another hour or so making sure GV combat will work with it and making the river look like a river. Sure, someone can just modify the Fester terrain.......

*Note to self, I think I put that city in the wrong location.




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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 02:37:52 PM »
Why is every map an invented terrain?   Why not model something as an overlay on real world geography?   Even if sections on the outer edges have no bases this would assist immersion.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 04:56:06 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline hitech

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 03:15:42 PM »
Why does every map an invented terrain?   Why not model something as an overlay on real world geography?   Even if sections on the outer edges have no bases this would assist immersion.

Once again incorrect hyperbole.

Some are real world




Offline Vraciu

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 03:50:40 PM »
Once again incorrect hyperbole.

Some are real world


Mindanao?

That's the only one I can think of that might be real world.  I haven't compared it to an actual map though.  Which ones am I missing?

(Hyperbole is not "incorrect" if intended.  In this case I was "mistaken" since my comment was not meant to be an exaggeration but WAS INTENDED to be taken literally.)   I stand corrected on my inaccurate assertion.  :salute

We could use more of that type of map I think.
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hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.


« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 04:56:40 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
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Offline bustr

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Re: Maps - Fester, Buzzsaw
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2017, 04:11:29 PM »
I'm creating an even playing field sand box filled with equal opportunities for everyone. When you pull in a real world topographical area, you still have to apply the field spacing rules with an equal number of each kind of field to achieve an even playing field. When you are actually fighting on the Melee terrain, you only see the surrounding 8sq miles of art work the terrain builder slaved over. It could be any place on planet earth. And the clipboard map is the only visual clue you have that the terrain is not from the real world but, only if you keep it zoomed all the way out to see the entirety of the arena.


Quote
Why not model something as an overlay on real world geography? 


As for an overlay, as long as you start with a 4096x4096 or 2048x2048 art file. Then overlay your real world location as a cut and paste to fit into either file's work space, you can then create a heightmap file from that. Or you can use "Artik's program" that pulls in real world geo maps and burps out a heightmap to import into the terrain editor. Please feel free to create a Melee arena terrain using Artiks geo app. For some reason you keep throwing out decisions for others to follow to make you happy instead of making your own perfect terrain for everyone to enjoy.

In the end, changing an existing terrain like Fester, long after it's been in rotation is a royal bite, and it's better to just create a new terrain using the Fester 4096x4096 clip board map.bmp as a blueprint file prototype. The obvious premise on the Fester map was to separate everyone out into cosy little combat operational arenas so furballers could furball, task group commanders could play in big ponds, and tankers could leave them all alone. It was an interesting attempt at giving everyone what they wanted while segregating them into their combat of choice. Even bomber players had a place.....

Build your own terrain instead of trying to tell everyone else to change how they should do it to suit your fantasies. Including trying to tell Hitech something is wrong with how he allows Melee arena terrains to be constructed. If you want a real world geo location, you can download Artik's program in the Terrain Editor forum. Then produce your 1:1 blue print file with everything mapped out and let Hitech look over it. With a file that is 1mile=8pixels, you can map spawn points down to the 1\8 mile and every single base to 19-25 miles separation.
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.