VR vs ordinary monitors

[aaronr]

Hello I'm wondering if folks are flying against each other in arenas with both VR and ordinary monitors?
The reason I ask is that it seems that folks without VR (ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL) would be at a decisive disadvantage.
Of course there will be exceptions but can it really be expected that two pilots of exactly the same skill level could have a truly even fight with one being much more aware of the situation?
I have a hard time believing this hasn't been asked a thousand times but I couldn't find anything after trying about ten different search methods.
I don't want to start a fight but would just like to know if I'm mistaken, and there is some way to make fights more even like giving outside cockpit views to those without VR?

[FLS]

When is all else equal? The answer is "never" so your argument is moot since it's based on a theoretical premise.

My experience is that VR is more fun but fights are the same.

[SJ001]

I have a x52 Pro, it has 3 hats, I can see all around, I guess that's a disadvantage to a XBOX controller and some others,I see what your saying, but this game supports a lot of different peripherals, including rudder pedals, button boxes and VR.

[aaronr]

So there's no advantage whatsoever in a fight if I were to invest in VR?
It's a lot of money for me but I am willing to pay if it can give me some advantage as I have for pedals better joy stick and head tracking etc.
I spent money for those things and saw an immediate benefit over guys that I flew with all the time.

I guess I was under the impression that VR would give me a big step up, but if it's as you say it wouldn't even be as big as getting pedals was.

[oboe]

There are too many variables here - some people use hatswitches for views, some use the number keypad - others have TrackIR and some even VR.    I guess it even makes a difference what the resolution of your monitor is - people say dots are easier to see at 1080p than they are at higher resolutions.

VR gear, while getting more affordable, still requires a great video card - if you have a GTX 960, I'm not sure - it may struggle a bit.

[aaronr]

There are too many variables here - some people use hatswitches for views, some use the number keypad - others have TrackIR and some even VR.    I guess it even makes a difference what the resolution of your monitor is - people say dots are easier to see at 1080p than they are at higher resolutions.

VR gear, while getting more affordable, still requires a great video card - if you have a GTX 960, I'm not sure - it may struggle a bit.

I have a 1080 with 8 GB ram now and stepped it up to a i7 cpu as well still 16 GB ram on the CPU.
I don't want to end up spending a bunch of money on a headset if it's not going to help my situational advantage if the hat switch and other methods are just as good right?

[FLS]

So there's no advantage whatsoever in a fight if I were to invest in VR?
It's a lot of money for me but I am willing to pay if it can give me some advantage as I have for pedals better joy stick and head tracking etc.
I spent money for those things and saw an immediate benefit over guys that I flew with all the time.

I guess I was under the impression that VR would give me a big step up, but if it's as you say it wouldn't even be as big as getting pedals was.

I think you'll see a big step up in the fun factor. The other things you mentioned support my statement that all other things are never equal. VR may help you be more successful but I haven't seen that myself, just as pedals may help some people more than others depending on aircraft choice and flying style.

[Lusche]

Hello I'm wondering if folks are flying against each other in arenas with both VR and ordinary monitors?
The reason I ask is that it seems that folks without VR (ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL) would be at a decisive disadvantage.
Of course there will be exceptions but can it really be expected that two pilots of exactly the same skill level could have a truly even fight with one being much more aware of the situation?

Several times I have seen VR pilots mention that they find themselves to be at a disadvantage vs TrackIr pilots when it comes to the ability to do quick scans especially of the rear hemisphere.
A pilot using hat view only (and being used to it), can do extremely quick scans of his surroundings, watching in every direction in less than a second. (With my trackir I'm significantly slower, but big cockpit frames are less of an obstruction to me)
So I don't think it's that decisive. I still shoot down VR users, and I still get whacked by gunners using a mouse only.

And, as already mentioned, there is a huge variety in other equipment which people are using in here, all giving you various levels of an 'edge' or comfort. Mouse, simple joystick, full HOTAS, rudder pedals, TrackIR, VR, small screens, huge 3 monitor setups...
At least when it comes to fighter combat, in the end of the day experience, tactics and a thorough understanding of aerial combat maneuvers will still beat any equipment advantage a player may possess.

but if it's as you say it wouldn't even be as big as getting pedals was.

I used pedals for a few years, then went back to twisty. Pedals were more comfortable and more precise, but I found that precision to matter only in a few situations. Generally I did as fine with the twisty as with the pedals. (Doesn't mean I wouldn't go back to pedals if I could )

[1stpar3]

In my opinion, VR gives one major difference, ability to judge closure rates and better targeting. Since you are in a 3D world it just makes it more "Normal",perceived any way. What I mean by that is your brain can handle the calculations faster in 3D. Vr is a step backwards when it comes to fine details though. The resolution/crispness of detail and textures is way degraded when compared to playing 2d with TIR or other head tracking add ons. You can use hat switches to help with the VR "6" checking(most other sims dont have this) but it is alot like TIR,takes time to dial it in to work best for you. If money isnt an issue, and details are not number1 on your list of priorities...VR is the way to go. This game has some unique features for VR users,one and the best for me so far is a new one. You can now take off headset(VR) and automatically the game goes to regular 2d mode. Great for tank guns and level bombing. So its a toss up really, do I believe VR has improved my game play? ABSOLUTELY. Did it give me enough of a boost to shell out alot of cash? Not really! I had the cash, so just jumped in the deep end. Am I happy with VR? It did take some time but I wouldnt go back to 2D unless I just absolutely had too

[Delirium]

(different question, but along the same theme)

When I use my TrackIR, I tend to have a fishbowl effect in Aces High. Does VR completely eliminate that so it feels natural? Can you set the degrees of movement in VR to be slower or faster than RL rotation?

[FLS]

I would think the fishbowl effect is from your FOV setting. If the FOV matches your monitor size and eyeball distance from the monitor the fishbowl effect should go away. You should see that when you zoom in a little.

VR has natural perspective and movement but some peripheral vision is blocked so it's like wearing googles or a dive mask. That's still better than your peripheral vision seeing your room along with the monitor.

It is not possible to scale head movement like TIR requires for a rear view. Instead your headset is tracked so you can look straight back but it's more practical to use a rear view switch.

[SIK1]

(different question, but along the same theme)

When I use my TrackIR, I tend to have a fishbowl effect in Aces High. Does VR completely eliminate that so it feels natural? Can you set the degrees of movement in VR to be slower or faster than RL rotation?

Head movement in VR is 1:1, which does cause some issue with looking back "over your shoulder", because the periphery is limited you have to turn farther around to see behind you. I have found a swivel chair is a great help with this. For me, with the exception of the limited peripheral vision VR feels very natural.
 
Not sure what you mean by fishbowl effect with TIR. I played on a 42" 1080p tv for many years with TIR and loved it. In fact smoothly tracking a target in the rear hemisphere and maintaining spacial orientation is one of the things I've struggled with since transitioning to VR.

There are trade offs such as resolution, not to mention cost when you go with VR, but for me they're worth it for the 3D environment I now play in.

 
Sik

[1stpar3]

I have seen some folks videos where they have FOV set at like 120+. Thats what I would call "Fishbowl" experience. How everything looks stretched when reading through a fish tank AcesHigh though offers one key difference with VR! You can still use hat switch views, meaning that if twisting to see behind you is a problem just use a look back "Hatswitch" key. Like with TIR it may work for you right out of the box but give it time, and adjust every thing to your liking, you more than likely would never go back to standard 2D

[Ack-Ack]

So there's no advantage whatsoever in a fight if I were to invest in VR?
It's a lot of money for me but I am willing to pay if it can give me some advantage as I have for pedals better joy stick and head tracking etc.
I spent money for those things and saw an immediate benefit over guys that I flew with all the time.

I guess I was under the impression that VR would give me a big step up, but if it's as you say it wouldn't even be as big as getting pedals was.

It won't give you a decisive advantage over someone that doesn't use VR or other head tracking hardware like TrackIR.  The view system in this game is fantastic and customizable so a person just using a hatswitch on their joystick can have excellent views.  I used to use TrackIR and while it made some things like tracking a bandit under the nose easier, it never gave me a decisive advantage over someone else that wasn't using one.

[aaronr]

So would it also apply to the days when we had external view available in some arenas, I remember folks arguing that the external view "MADE" good pilots and that's why it was done away with.
I personally liked using it when flying from point to point. I also thought the same about VR hence I weas afraid it could be Banned for "MAKING" good pilots.
I guess that tosses the external view argument out the cockpit window.