Author Topic: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)  (Read 23038 times)

Offline Brooke

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Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« on: September 11, 2017, 04:08:34 AM »
The initial writeup is here:

http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201710_TargetRabaul/rules.html

This topic is for discussion, comments, and suggestions (as long as they can be made in a reasonably civilized manner).  :aok

Offline ROC

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 11:57:10 AM »
Quote
as long as they can be made in a reasonably civilized manner)
  Oh you and your conditions!  :rofl :neener: :cheers:
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline ROC

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 12:07:48 PM »
Interesting scoring approach.  Personally, it's a bit convoluted but you are counting it, so it's ok.  The downside is, it may be difficult for the players to track in game to see how they are progressing, which is how they adapt their missions and plans during the frame. 

Quick question regarding this;
Quote
Points in a frame:

    Axis starts with 6 points (or 1 point per number of allied B-24 pilots, if allies don't have 6 B-24 pilots).
    Allies start with 0 points.
    Each side gets additionally 1 point per kill, or 1 point per Total Enemy Loss, whichever is greater.
    Each B-24 pilot gets 2 points per bomber hangar and vehicle hangar destroyed -- plus 1 point in any Mission where he destroys any town buildings or any objects on a ship.
    Each B-25 pilot gets 0.66 points per barracks, ammo bunker, and ship destroyed -- plus 0.33 points in any Mission where he destroys any town buildings or any objects on a ship.

"Any" object on a ship, so a single small gun can be taken out and it counts? You can strafe a ship and take out the machine guns.  Was it the objective to reach the target and hit anything to show the pilot got there or to do actual damage?  Either works, but again, the intention helps define the mission plan, it changes how the ships are attacked.  It's a bit lopsided to require a building to go down on a town, not counting ground guns, but for the small guns to count on the ships.
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 01:12:50 PM »
Black Sheep slots ..... no Jolly Roger slots.  :(

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 01:26:20 PM »
No CVs being used.... This is just AAFC and USMC for allied, looks like
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Arlo

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 01:36:23 PM »
Jolly Rogers were land based.

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 01:59:18 PM »
Jolly Rogers were land based.

Indeed.

Even though Blackburn proved that the Corsair was carrier capable from the very beginning.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 02:22:34 PM »
Indeed.

Even though Blackburn proved that the Corsair was carrier capable from the very beginning.

Overridden by Naval Logistics. At least until April 1944. Ironically, the first F4U squadron to be cleared for CV ops at that time was a Marine squadron, VMF-124 (on the Essex).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AirNorSols' first strike on Rabaul came on December 17, and soon the (Japanese) stripped other areas of 300 fighters to deploy in the five airfields around Rabual.

Jan. 26 - VF-17's First Raid on Rabaul

Fighting-17 re-joined the fray with a 32-plane escort mission against Rabaul's Lakunai airfield. As the SBD's recovered from their run, a lone Zero came out and Blackburn splashed it. He was VF-17's first ace. That day Fighting-17 downed 8 (Japanese) planes and prevented any losses to the SBDs in their care, but lost two Hog pilots and totalled a third plane. While such results were favorable; they were unsustainable. Losing two per day would wipe out the squadron in less than three weeks.

Jan. 27 - Sixteen for Seventeen

The next day, they ran a similar mission, this time with 24 F4Us. After the B-25s dropped their bombs, about 70 Zeros hit Thad Bell's division. No one ever saw Thad again. Ike Kepford, leading a division, and his number 3, Danny Cunningham both scored twice. Bobby Mims got 2.5 kills. A Zero shot up "Teeth" Burriss' plane badly. His wingman, Ensign "Andy Gump" Jagger, was able to get behind the Zero and smoked it; Teeth saw it go in. Shortly, Teeth's engine cut out and he ditched successfully. Blackburn and three others circled over him until a Dumbo picked him up. Again, the squadron had done its job: none of the B-25s were hit, sixteen Zeros were downed, but another Corsair pilot had been lost. (There's a famous photo of Andy Jagger exulting after a hot mission. The Newsday article dates the photo to 1944, perhaps it was this mission.)

Jan. 28 - Roving High Cover

Following the loss of three pilots in 2 days, Blackburn and his officers devised a new tactic. Six extra planes (made available by the superior maintenance of their Marine plane crews) would fly well above the assigned fighters escorting the bombers and get the jump on any Zeros that approached. Of course VF-17 would still have to meet its primary escort responsibilities, and the six planes would essentially be all alone. Cols. Brice and Bryan at Fighter Command approved the scheme. On the morning of the 28th, Blackburn led 20 Corsairs, part of an escort for 17 TBFs that were "glide bombing" Tobera airfield. Rog Hedrick led the RHC (Roving High Cover), 6 planes at 32,000 feet. They made 4 kills and disrupted the (Japanese) fighter response. The 14 remaining fighters, that stayed close to the bombers, scored another 10.5 kills. Again, all of the bombers came through unscathed. And so did VF-17.
On the 29th, two of the four aircraft planned for the RHC aborted, but Kepford and Burriss pressed on, and got four Zeros apiece. At that night's pilots' meeting, Blackburn chewed them out (!?) for recklessness and over-confidence, and then announced that separate pairs would not go in below 30,000 feet.

Jan. 30 - Collision at Torokina

In the morning, Hedrick led a routine escort mission of twenty F4Us over Tobera and shot down a Zero. In the afternoon, ComAirSols got word of a Jap carrier in Rabaul, and scrambled every available fighter and TBF to go after. VF-17 sent up every plane it could. At Rabaul, there was no carrier, but the Hogs made 10 confirmed kills: Kepford got 2, Davenport got 2, Chenoweth 1, etc. But one pilot disappeared; a second ditched and was recovered. Tragically, Doug Gutenkunst, Blackburn's frequent wingman and close friend, collided with a damaged Marine Corsair as they came in for a dusk landing at nearby Piva Uncle.

The next day, Teeth Burriss went down. In sum, January (or its last six days) was impressive: 60.5 enemy planes destroyed, at a cost of 6 men and 13 Corsairs.

Feb. 6 - Big Hog Gets Four

Blackburn led twenty fighters up, finding forty Zeros defending the airspace over Lakunai. The mission was one twisting, exploding, zooming dogfight after another. Blackburn had a new wingman, who stuck with: through flaming fireballs of exploding Zeros, through high-G pullouts, and through twisting chandelles. Blackburn got 4 and Bobby Mims got 3, making ace. Back on the ground, the new wingman who had performed so well approached Blackburn and shocked him. He wanted out! Blackburn and the Jolly Rogers were nuts!

Feb. 7 - The Statue of Liberty Play

Blackburn, Henning, and Hedrick were always trying to come up with a better idea. They noticed that the Zeros never pursued the U.S. bombers after a certain distance. Presumably the (Japanese) had orders to stay within a certain radius. Beyond that point, on the return trip, the bombers were safe. Thus, they proposed to take eight F4Us (with plenty of fuel and seasoned pilots) back north, over New Ireland, and come streaking over Rabaul at wave-top level. In the best case, they hoped to catch a bunch of Zeros unsuspectingly coming back to base. In the worst case, they'd be caught on the deck, with nowhere to dive away to.

The morning of the 7th started with a standard escort to Vunakunau. Some 40 Zeros came up and offered battle, but no Corsairs or bombers were lost. The (Japanese) chased a little farther than usual, but did turn back in time for Blackburn to run his play. He and five others turned again to the north, came around, and strafed the Rabaul airport. They did some damage, but nothing like they had hoped for.

They completed several missions in the next ten days, but encountered very little opposition. On the 17th, the (Japanese) opposition stiffened, and they shot down 2 VF-17 pilots (its last casualties). The following day, Fighting-17 added 7 more to their scoreboard. February 19 was "one for the books": the squadron scored 16 kills, including 3 by Ike Kepford, in one of the war's most famous missions. Finally convinced of the futility of Rabaul's air defense, the Japanese pulled all their planes out on February 20, 1944.

http://acepilots.com/usn_blackburn.html

(VF-17 scored most of their kills over Rabaul)

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 02:28:49 PM »
I didn't bother to go diving into my books, Arlo... I was just going by Brooke's write-up of the Scenario

kind of too busy making multiple phone calls for my Daughter & her Mom down in florida, to get things a rolling fast as possible..... just using the AH BBS to fight off the madness, lol
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Brooke

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 02:35:44 PM »
  Oh you and your conditions!  :rofl :neener: :cheers:

 :aok

Offline Arlo

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 02:38:44 PM »
I didn't bother to go diving into my books, Arlo... I was just going by Brooke's write-up of the Scenario

kind of too busy making multiple phone calls for my Daughter & her Mom down in florida, to get things a rolling fast as possible..... just using the AH BBS to fight off the madness, lol

I wasn't challenging you, brother. It's understood, you have very important things to attend to. I have a slight advantage of having gathered sources since 1997 as the unofficial squadron 'historian.' This just seems like one (of two) scenario setups where VF-17 deserves a possible spotlight (the second being "Battle of the Solomon Sea" which would actually require CVs to fly out to and protect).

(If no JR slots materialize, so be it. I've the entire cd set of 'Baa Baa Black Sheep/Black Sheep Squadron' to console me.)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 02:42:29 PM by Arlo »

Offline Brooke

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 02:42:52 PM »
kind of too busy making multiple phone calls for my Daughter & her Mom down in florida

My best wishes to your family, TC.

Offline Fencer51

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 02:56:06 PM »
1.  May I suggest a revision to the P-38 squadrons with the 80th FS being put in in lieu of another.  Just saving you guys from the wraith of the bomber pilots.

2.  VF-17 would be a better choice IMHO.

3.  Why the H model B-25 in lieu of the B/C with the straffer package?  If you do not want flights of 3, then disable that for the B/C models.

4.  Also, would it not make more sense to swap A66 for A61?  This would allow the bombers time and space to get up and forum up before entering enemy airspace.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 03:06:38 PM by Fencer51 »
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 03:11:13 PM »
Black Sheep slots ..... no Jolly Roger slots.  :(

I would like players' preferred squadrons in there.  If folks prefer, we could make it the Jolly Rogers instead of the Black Sheep.  There were many groups there, the Black Sheep, the Jolly Rogers, the Fighting Corsairs, etc., but when we have 40 people on a side, I can't fit them all in.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Design discussion for October Scenario (Target Rabaul)
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2017, 03:13:54 PM »
1.  May I suggest a revision to the P-38 squadrons with the 80th FS being put in in lieu of another.  Just saving you guys from the wraith of the bomber pilots.

2.  VF-17 would be a better choice IMHO.

3.  Why the H model B-25 in lieu of the B/C with the straffer package?  If you do not want flights of 3, then disable that for the B/C models.

4.  Also, would it not make more sense to swap A66 for A61?  This would allow the bombers time and space to get up and forum up before entering enemy airspace.

 :cheers: (I was hoping the design slots might increase giving Black Sheep fans and Jolly Rogers both some slots - increasing the Japanese slots, in turn .... 60 or even 80 to a side wasn't unheard of and this would be a prime opportunity to grab some STEAM players and hook them on events)

P.S. Are The Black Sheep still active in AH? I would relish a VF-17 - VMF-214 competition of sorts within this event. :D
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 03:18:24 PM by Arlo »