Author Topic: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria  (Read 925 times)

Offline Gman

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Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« on: September 15, 2017, 04:18:38 PM »
Excellent video, tons of great info, pilots discuss a variety of things, everything from comms to the weapons engagement and dodging the debris could from the shot down SU22.

https://livestream.com/wab/tailhook2017/videos/162478715

Really interesting bit at 36:00 or so, one of the pilots referred to his Top Gun training and what Mig Killers had told him before, that it won't be all 100 miles away and BVR, it'll likely be visual range - as it frequently ends up being even in today's world of tech and stealth - and that those ACM and visual fundamentals were still key for this engagement. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 04:34:53 PM by Gman »

Offline Arlo

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 04:52:12 PM »
Hey, Shida. Starbucks cups.  :D

Offline Toad

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 06:41:01 PM »
it won't be all 100 miles away and BVR, it'll likely be visual range - 

Nah. With the F-35, the bandits will be iced at eleventy hundred miles before they even get their gear up.

No worries.
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2017, 08:50:38 AM »
So the Syrian SU-22 bombed the allied troops then it was shot down.  Just by luck the bombs didn't hit anyone.  Alls well the ends well I guess.  Been cool if they would have shot it down before it dropped bombs on allied troops.
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Offline Toad

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2017, 09:01:48 AM »
Been cool if they would have shot it down before it dropped bombs on allied troops.

The ROE probably precluded that. Or else by the time the situation was relayed up 37 command levels and the answer came back down 37 command levels...the bombs had already been dropped.
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2017, 09:15:09 AM »
Around the 3/4th mark in the interview one of the pilots told that they were allowed to operate autonomously under the rules laid out by the 3 star CAG.  Maybe things happened too quick.  I don't believe they had to ask permission at all to shoot this guy down.  They made a visual pass, a pass dropping flares,  then finally after it bombed the troops, they fired an Aim-9 (which missed) then an AMRAAM.  I'm very glad that Su-22 wasn't carrying nerve gas.
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2017, 11:53:35 PM »
Great video. Thank you for posting. Will share on FB.

It seems like around the time of the shootdown, I heard iit was VFA-31, but it turns out it was VFA-87. <S>
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 11:01:09 AM »
But still. The state-of-the art Sidewinder took the flares instead of the aircraft... They arent supposed to do that..
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Offline Kanth

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 11:10:19 AM »
That is a great video and hilarious too. Thanks for sharing it.   :salute  :cheers:
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Offline Gman

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 05:34:08 PM »
Zimm, it's just speculation regarding the Aim9x being fooled by old flares.  When the news first broke about the engagement and how the first missile missed and then the Aim120 was used, many defense journalists remembered the story of the Aim9L/M having a similar thing happen, being tuned to ignore NATO flares, but then went right after WarsawPac flares - the exact words being "The Aim9 REALLY liked the Russian flares".  So everyone just figured this was flare-gate 2.0.  The pilot specifically said he lost the missile and didn't see what happened to it, that could be just classification/orders to say that, or it could mean the flares did spoof it, or just as likely that the missile just failed for some other reason.  The pilots mentioned several times in the vid that the air to air weapons are constantly loaded and offloaded, for decades with some rounds, never being used.  All this moving/reconnecting plugs/wires and the long shelf life = missiles WILL fail.

The pilots said they did close fly by's in front of the nose of the SU22 not once, but three times dumping flares, this is after yelling at him multiple times on GUARD to break off.  I imagine once those bombs came off it wasn't long before missiles were in the air, based on their description of events.  Sure sounds like the ROE gives every chance to the Syrian AF to NOT get shot down, and this guy just ignored everything, either due to orders, or his own volition. 

Very impressed with the professionalism of these USN officers on that stage, excellent brief, and I can't wait to read the written version they do for Proceedings naval magazine.

Offline pipz

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 06:37:59 PM »
The pilots mentioned several times in the vid that the air to air weapons are constantly loaded and offloaded, for decades with some rounds, never being used.  All this moving/reconnecting plugs/wires and the long shelf life = missiles WILL fail.

I thought they did routine maintenance on them. In the book "Scream of Eagles" it mentioned this problem as one of the factors the missiles were not working properly in Vietnam. One guy said something to the effect...ya treat them like bombs they will act like bombs.
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Offline Gman

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 10:09:06 PM »
You're right, they must do regular tests and maintenance, but they did say that missile failures aren't all that uncommon.  I'm not going to assume the Aim9x is ineffective now because of one incident .  I'm sure more will come out about this considering the attention the subject received.

Offline Gman

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 09:34:11 AM »
Video of the shootdown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko2X34sN8BI



Full cruise video with the shootdown in it - great cruise vid, the best action I've seen, a guns kill on truck or some type of ground target too, a first that I've seen online.

https://vk.com/video9014095_456239070?list=c651e2430be3026da2&from=wall-123538639_431790
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 12:25:58 PM by Gman »

Offline BuckShot

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Re: Hornet pilots describe SU22 shootdown in Syria
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 06:49:09 PM »
Video of the shootdown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko2X34sN8BI



Full cruise video with the shootdown in it - great cruise vid, the best action I've seen, a guns kill on truck or some type of ground target too, a first that I've seen online.

https://vk.com/video9014095_456239070?list=c651e2430be3026da2&from=wall-123538639_431790

Great vids, thanks for posting. The cannon burst at night near the end of the Tomcatters video is awesome!
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