Take bombers off attack mode.

[DmonSlyr]

My wish is, I think the attack scoring should not be able utilize bombers, or at the very least, not be able to take drones. I think it would be much better for the attack scoring if only planes like the IL-2s, Stuka, ect - jabo type aircraft be scored as attack. This would eliminate a lot of score gaming and make the attack rank more realistic.

What y'all think?

[Lusche]

This would eliminate a lot of score gaming and make the attack rank more realistic.

I doubt that.

1. Some bombers would still be available. Tu-2, Ju-88 for example because they were often flown in a more attack style than level bombing mode.
2. Someone using bombers like these to 'game' his attack rank would not take formations in the first place if he knows how things are working.
3. Gaming the score is concept independent of the tools it's using. Changing the rules doesn't take away a players intention to 'game' it in the first place.

[DmonSlyr]

I doubt that.

1. Some bombers would still be available. Tu-2, Ju-88 for example because they were often flown in a more attack style than level bombing mode.
2. Someone using bombers like these to 'game' his attack rank would not take formations in the first place if he knows how things are working.
3. Gaming the score is concept independent of the tools it's using. Changing the rules doesn't take away a players intention to 'game' it in the first place.

On your first point. In real life that might be the case, in AH, the majority will level bomb with them.

Second point. That may or may not be the case depending on how good they are in fighters. They still get a tremendous bombing score if they do bring a formation. This takes away from Jabo attacking which is what it should really score.

Thirdly. The scoring would be more realistic for the class. Only fighters with Ord can be scored as attack. Only Jabo small bomber type aircraft could be scored as attack. It would eliminate a lot of fighters scoring as attack to avoid their fighter scores, it would making the jabo bombing more true. Instead the attack can be used as a cushion for bomber and fighter rankers when they already have their own categories.

[haggerty]

what is the problem you are seeing and want fixed?
The top attack players dont use bombers for their attack score, atleast I dont and dont know of my counterparts doing it.  Most attack fighters carry atleast 2,000lb of bombs, enough to wreck a city decently.  Taking a bomber formation would ruin your score for little gain in damage.

[lunatic1]

the planes are modeled as close to the real thing as possible..

if a plane was classified in real life as Bomber/Attack the it should be the same in the game..

if you launch a F/A-18 without rockets-bombs-missiles, does that change it from a F/A to a fighter?

[DmonSlyr]

It's just to make the scores more true. Too many people use the attack score as a cushion from bomber and fighter. I beg to differ about the scoring. While it does take 3 sorties to take drones you can get far more damage. A few fighter sorties with high kills/ sortie and 2 bomber runs will get you far. All you gotta do is zoom the town in a fighter for hit %. You don't even have to fly a Jabo type plane.

[haggerty]

The current #1 and #2 attack score players are commenting in this thread and saying that we dont take bomber formations to towns for attack score, so I dont think its as big a problem as you are making it out to be.  The worst I've done is rearm a TU-2 twice, sinking a CV and hitting a town twice for the capture, but that sortie was very much in the spirit of "Attack".

I would like that if you are not taking ordnance on a fighter, that you not be allowed to score in attack mode.  I'm sure there are exceptions that could be made for mobile cannons and other ground attack planes.  That would keep the fighter score a more accurate representation of what it is right now I believe.  Though I guess someone could just bring ords and drop them on the runway to get around it...

[DmonSlyr]

The current #1 and #2 attack score players are commenting in this thread and saying that we dont take bomber formations to towns for attack score, so I dont think its as big a problem as you are making it out to be.  The worst I've done is rearm a TU-2 twice, sinking a CV and hitting a town twice for the capture, but that sortie was very much in the spirit of "Attack".

I would like that if you are not taking ordnance on a fighter, that you not be allowed to score in attack mode.  I'm sure there are exceptions that could be made for mobile cannons and other ground attack planes.  That would keep the fighter score a more accurate representation of what it is right now I believe.  Though I guess someone could just bring ords and drop them on the runway to get around it...

Haggerty, the last 2 times I was #1 attack. I Bombed with tu-2s and flew fighters with 0 ord. This month, I went from 480 to 10 over night after 2 Tu-2 runs, because I had 2-3 great fighter sorties.... I know peeps wouldn't like it. But I am trying to make it more true for scoring. I'm glad you see my points about Ord and fighters. The other argument is that if formations aren't good for scoring as you say, than they still shouldn't be able to fly attack. If they like bombing but don't want to hurt their bomber score to go bomb a popular field, they will switch to attack to avoid the trouble. They will still bomb the FHs or CV and piss all the fighters off, knowing they will most likely die. All I am saying is that Attack should not be used as a cushion to not hurt your other scores.

[Ack-Ack]

The OP's post is nothing more than a solution desperately seeking a problem that doesn't exist.

[DmonSlyr]

Then what is the point of having the attack score at all? It should be scored for attack planes only, not level bombing, or fighter sweeps. It would make attack score be more true while keeping players from using it as a shield to not affect their other scores.

[asterix]

If you strafe a ground target with guns/ cannons and don`t have ords, it seems like an attack sortie. If you strafe a ground target with a formation of B-26, Tu-2 bombers, it also seems like an attack sortie. Don`t see a problem here, then again I would not have a problem with different scoring. Disable level bombing bombsight for attack sortie?

[Lusche]

Haggerty, the last 2 times I was #1 attack. I Bombed with tu-2s and flew fighters with 0 ord. This month, I went from 480 to 10 over night after 2 Tu-2 runs, because I had 2-3 great fighter sorties....

But that's just you.

I am currently #1 in Attack. Last tour I ended #1 (after the purge). Before that, I have been ending up number one 33 times.

And I don't fly formations in attack mode.
Ever.
House rule.

So if you would disable formations in that mode, nothing would change for me.
Disabling the Attack Mode for the Tu-2 would impact me, as I am using that plane a lot as a genuine attacker for hunting tanks at the strats and occasionally similar to a heavy fighter when attacking bases. But it would not change my performance in the 'score game' at all.

That doesn't mean I am all for keeping formations in attack mode. As noted above, I don't use them, as I feel it not to be the 'appropriate' mode. If HT would feel the same and changed it I would be fine.
I just want to say that it wouldn't really matter on ranks, it would not really change player's behaviour (just the planes used).

[DmonSlyr]

But that's just you.

I am currently #1 in Attack. Last tour I ended #1 (after the purge). Before that, I have been ending up number one 33 times.

And I don't fly formations in attack mode.
Ever.
House rule.

So if you would disable formations in that mode, nothing would change for me.
Disabling the Attack Mode for the Tu-2 would impact me, as I am using that plane a lot as a genuine attacker for hunting tanks at the strats and occasionally similar to a heavy fighter when attacking bases. But it would not change my performance in the 'score game' at all.

That doesn't mean I am all for keeping formations in attack mode. As noted above, I don't use them, as I feel it not to be the 'appropriate' mode. If HT would feel the same and changed it I would be fine.
I just want to say that it wouldn't really matter on ranks, it would not really change player's behaviour (just the planes used).

Well, I'm not saying that it is you that I am worried about and you play the mode just fine. What I am referring to is someone rolling bombers as attack to kill a CV knowing they are most likely going to die, to avoid having to use their bomber score. Likewise for the fighters. I know it doesn't seem like much of an issue, but I think it would change the psychology because it would make them fly attack mode only if they are trying to Jabo. At least we can sorta agree that drones for attack seem to be out of place. I just think some of the actual Jabo planes could be used a lot more.

[Lusche]

What I am referring to is someone rolling bombers as attack to kill a CV knowing they are most likely going to die, to avoid having to use their bomber score.

Bombing CVs is a great way to get a good bomber score, actually.  Hitting the CV is a tremendous source of perks, bombing hit% and damage points. The occasional death is much less important than many players seem to think. Even when going for #1 bomber spot, a few deaths are usually included (as one would need to get a few base captures by goon, risky business).

For the most part, the 'protect score' by using another category doesn't hold up much. We had this discussion a few times over the years. I remember once having made an analysis of the top Fighter Mode scorers, of which some did indeed fly much more 'attack' than 'fighter' sorties. So I combined both categories into a single one, and the resulting ranking wasn't much different at all.
The guys with the really good ranks were still the guys with the really good ranks.

Note that this was different for the very low populated EW/MW arenas - there you could actually protect your fighter rank, due to the very low number of sorties flown in the arenas.

[DmonSlyr]

Alight well I'll concede to your analysis then. Only this once  . I do think level bombing for attack should be taken off. Just to make it more challenging.