Thanks War Thunder!

[Krusty]

50cals ... weak? Uh... if you MISS, anything is weak.

Like how if you try to queue up your I-15 for RB that you'll almost constantly run into things like Spit 5's with quad 20's and such?   Queue up a G5N or G8N...

Yes! Like how if you queue up in any biplane you're put into games where several different midwar (1942) LaGGs with 20mm own the skies against biplanes with 7mm guns (1936-1938). How about how the I-16 guns are twice as effective as any other nation's 7mm guns. How about how the UFO flight models on the Ki-10 made them the laughing stock of the game every time. Took ungodly amount to kill and you could point their nose up and never stall, ever. You could literally hang on the prop with no ill effects.

Or let's look at tier 2? Bf109E-1 in the same tier as Fw190A-4s, XP-55 prototype planes, F4U-1As, P-38Gs, and worse. Or how about you get boomerangs vs Ki-100s and Typhoon MkIAs?

Or how about how they artificially make you grind a Bf109F-4, then make you grind a more expensive and more costly-to-repair Bf109F-4/Trop when they are the same plane? Rinse and repeat for many other planes with multiple identical versions.

There is no balance at all. It is the most decried matchup system in flight sim history, lamented by even the people that still play the game.


So.. yeah. That.

[Blinky]

I do believe this forum post has escalated it seems.. And strayed from it's original course might I add... I love AH, the mechanics are what I'm used to, as is the FM. I'll always be around. So far the only thing I could ask for was more or less disregarded, and I'm okay with it. It wasn't crucial, and It's not gonna turn me or probably anyone else away.

As far as diversity? I think AH has it. I'll tell you, it ticks me off to have to put many hours into 1 tier just to fly the plane I want. Especially when I barely want to play the game. In here, you can fly the plane you want when you want. Unless of course the ENY is down, or you don't have the perkies for it. Though ENY hasn't been much of an issue lately, and not many people risk flying the 262's when they can't afford it, because they might lose their gear 15 ft from the end of the runway (me).

With that being said, we should all relax and love the game we are given. And if you can't? Well... I'll buy you a beer anyway. <S> all.

[The Fugitive]

My son is a gamer.  I can't even begin to guess how many games he has beaten or played. He added me to his Steam account and the game list there is unbelievable.

That said, I asked him what he doesn't like about AH. His reply was the time involved to get to any action. He hates wasting the time it takes to climb out to a fight, the time it takes to chase down runners, the time it takes find a fight that doesn't involve upping under a vulch fest and so on. It's a combat game where most people seem to want to avoid combat, and so he plays other games where the action is pretty much instant.

[Krusty]

Fugi, the flip-side to that is it's also forcing people to die in the slaughter when they're in lower-tiered planes that have no business being matched up against premium super-planes and the like. That mentality punishes the many to feed the few (whales). Like hunting a blindfolded deer tied to a stake, somebody will die. Sure, you can call that "action" but the quality of said action is truly lacking.

[Oldman731]

Sure, you can call that "action" but the quality of said action is truly lacking.

Makes sense to me.  But it appears that there are many people out there - a lot of people - who are just fine with this, in exchange for whatever it is that pleases them about WT.  Agree with them or not, it could be a useful fact.

- oldman

[DaddyAce]

My son is a gamer.  I can't even begin to guess how many games he has beaten or played. He added me to his Steam account and the game list there is unbelievable.

That said, I asked him what he doesn't like about AH. His reply was the time involved to get to any action. He hates wasting the time it takes to climb out to a fight, the time it takes to chase down runners, the time it takes find a fight that doesn't involve upping under a vulch fest and so on. It's a combat game where most people seem to want to avoid combat, and so he plays other games where the action is pretty much instant.

I've heard much the same from my son who's business is gaming computers.  He's told me he thinks AH will always be a niche game, and the learning curve and time to get into the action and to be at all competitive is too much for most gamers.  I'll try to get more specifics from him next time I speak with him.   

[Lazerr]

The way two countries sit there and pound on one country 90% of the time is a problem.  If you have a difficult time seeing that.. I cant help you see it.  ( this typically fuels the vulching mentioned above)

The other major problem is m3 resupply.. cutting back on apparent action shown on the gameplay map.  Large fights for bases have been replace with groves of m3s and supplies.  Even jf you draw a new player from steam.. its going to be hard hooking him into a game model that promotes avoiding combat.

Its not the planeset.. its bigger than when we had 800 folks online nightly.

It isnt the graphics.. they are better than when we had 800 folks online nightly

[DaddyAce]

Makes sense to me.  But it appears that there are many people out there - a lot of people - who are just fine with this, in exchange for whatever it is that pleases them about WT.  Agree with them or not, it could be a useful fact.

- oldman

Yes, this is the simple apparent reality.  Now the trick is to figure out a way to increase the "stickiness" of AH once folks try it, and still maintain the quality and challenge that keeps us here.

[Wiley]

The main thing is, the vast majority of people don't actually want open world PvP.  They want bite-sized rounds with well defined goals.  If you want to see examples, take a look at stuff like DayZ or Rust (open persistent world) and then look at PUBG.  Orders of magnitude more players playing PUBG because you play a round in no more than 40 minutes, and nothing you did affects you going forward other than cosmetics and you maybe got better at the game.

Same with WT.  You play a round that is theoretically set up to be "fair"(Krusty's points notwithstanding), you either win or lose, you earn some points toward the next thing you want to buy/upgrade.  In 30 minutes or so you have done something with a beginning, middle, and end and you can see you made some kind of progress for something.

As far as the flight model, airplanes in WT basically range from slow and turny to faster and less turny, and they stall if you get them too slow, with varying levels of upgradeable guns.  This is enough for most people.  They don't want the Ensign Eliminator modeled correctly or flat spins, because those things don't add to their feeling of being an awesome game pile-it.

And regardless of if they're serviceable, at the end of the day people want graphics.  It doesn't matter to Aiden with the $3000 alienware and 32" 144Hz 4k display that you can have over 100 planes on the screen at once.  All that matters is it doesn't look as good as the next game over.

That's why this is and always will be a niche game.  At the height of popularity, IMO people were tolerating the parts of the game that they didn't like to get the stuff they did.  It seems to me lack of instant action is likely one of the main things that they were tolerating.  When options came along that looked better and gave them the instant action, they vacated.

At least for me, instant action isn't what I want out of this game.  What this game provides when it has numbers is what I want.

Just MHO.

Wiley.

[AAIK]

The main thing is, the vast majority of people don't actually want open world PvP.  They want bite-sized rounds with well defined goals.  If you want to see examples, take a look at stuff like DayZ or Rust (open persistent world) and then look at PUBG.  Orders of magnitude more players playing PUBG because you play a round in no more than 40 minutes, and nothing you did affects you going forward other than cosmetics and you maybe got better at the game.

Same with WT.  You play a round that is theoretically set up to be "fair"(Krusty's points notwithstanding), you either win or lose, you earn some points toward the next thing you want to buy/upgrade.  In 30 minutes or so you have done something with a beginning, middle, and end and you can see you made some kind of progress for something.

As far as the flight model, airplanes in WT basically range from slow and turny to faster and less turny, and they stall if you get them too slow, with varying levels of upgradeable guns.  This is enough for most people.  They don't want the Ensign Eliminator modeled correctly or flat spins, because those things don't add to their feeling of being an awesome game pile-it.

And regardless of if they're serviceable, at the end of the day people want graphics.  It doesn't matter to Aiden with the $3000 alienware and 32" 144Hz 4k display that you can have over 100 planes on the screen at once.  All that matters is it doesn't look as good as the next game over.

That's why this is and always will be a niche game.  At the height of popularity, IMO people were tolerating the parts of the game that they didn't like to get the stuff they did.  It seems to me lack of instant action is likely one of the main things that they were tolerating.  When options came along that looked better and gave them the instant action, they vacated.

At least for me, instant action isn't what I want out of this game.  What this game provides when it has numbers is what I want.

Just MHO.

Wiley.

Very smart and insightful responce. Very agreeable points.

[thndregg]

Skimming through all that's been said.. yes, just skimming.

I've loved this game ever since I burned up all of my brother Flayed's perks on Tempests after watching him play way back before I started my own account in 2004.

I play it, I step away from it. I have fun one night, get disgusted another night. I take breaks from it. Balanced out with real life, it's an escape. AH has always had a fun factor, so much so that I'll even launch in something I suck at (tanks, for example- I'm terrible and can't hit ****  ), expecting to get pulverized. Good for laughs, because, bottom line, it's all about fun. I don't get to wrapped up in losing it because it's all just pretend. Perks, damage points, rank, it's just virtual BS. I'm pretty grounded enough in the real world to not get so wrapped up in the virtual. Big deal. 

Yes, this is the simple apparent reality.  Now the trick is to figure out a way to increase the "stickiness" of AH once folks try it, and still maintain the quality and challenge that keeps us here.

Yep.. learned in my novice live music experience it's the "hook" of a tune that makes it good and worth listening to over again.

Just my two bits.

[Lusche]

I think you missed the point.

And what did I miss?

[Delirium]

That said, I asked him what he doesn't like about AH. His reply was the time involved to get to any action.

This is THE reason I don't play anymore. My time is very limited right now, but I do have some free time. I don't enjoy logging in and possibly spending the night of "chasing the fights" all over the map. After a couple hours of this, I log off frustrated and either go to bed or play some other game to enjoy some escapism for a little while. Now, I don't even bother trying and instead play standalone games where I know I will have a good night, regardless of the map or community online at the time.

The problem with Aces High is the fight is not continuous like it once was. I can't speak for the gaming community, but I want to log on with my limited time, find some good fights and log off satisfied with the experience. Last time I played Aces High it was more akin to foreplay with an inflatable doll that has no bodily orifices; bits of excitement but no real chance for climax. I am planning on returning to Aces High next year, but if things are the same, my presence will have a very short duration. I'm not enthusiastic about the upcoming experience considering the T34 and the P51 look to still dominate the killboard.

The worst thing Aces High ever did was abandon the automated Combat Theater. That would have allowed for constant action by potentially permitting players to fill AI roles inflight, as they logged in, allowing for near instant action. Imagine logging in knowing that you can take part in a bomber escort or interception at the top or bottom of every hour. It would encourage more part time players instead of the same dreary list of old farts that are always on Aces High. While FSO and scenario fulfill a need, they fall way short on the 24-7 availability.

[Lusche]

and the P51 look to still dominate the killboard.

The Pony is just leading, but is far from being actually dominating the killboard or the arena.

The problem with Aces High is the fight is not continuous like it once was.

And that may be accelerating the development AH is facing. To me, it seems like off hours has dropped much more in numbers than US prime. Which would be no surprise to me, as I too have shifted my activites to verly late night (=US prime as well) instead of Euro noon or Euro primetime.
Unfortunately, playing at 3am is not sustainable for me.

[popeye]

Does anyone have statistics on the number of people who would be playing if the people who don't play because not enough people are playing were playing?