Author Topic: Is the 109-G10 really faster then the Ponys? (Read 476 times)

Jase · « **on:** July 20, 2001, 11:51:00 AM »

According to the plane speeds graph on HiTech's site the g10 under wep stays around 25mph faster then the pony d and b at almost every alt. Is this true?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2001, 11:56:00 AM »

No, it all depends on inital speed. If I was faster before the P51 wont catch me, if he was faster before I wont catch him.

xHaMmeRx · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2001, 02:12:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
No, it all depends on inital speed. If I was faster before the P51 wont catch me, if he was faster before I wont catch him.

That's a bit misleading. If both planes maintained level flight, the one with the best level speed will eventually catch the other. I have started conducting tests on various planes, and have done the G10 and the P-51. One of the tests I conducted was "speed retention", where I dove planes to 500 TAS at various alts and checked how long it took them to slow down with full throttle and WEP. It takes the 51 nearly twice as long to lose its speed as the G-10 (58 seconds for the 51 to go from 475 down to 375 vs 33 seconds for the G-10). Of course, this does not take into account the ability to maneuver at high speed, which will normally let a fast 51 get away from a fast G-10.

I'll post the web-site here with the caveat that the server has been down quite a bit lately so, if it doesn't work, it has to wait for after work to get fixed.

netAces.org

HaMmeR

SpitLead · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2001, 02:45:00 PM »

The initial 'e' state is EVERYTHING in this game. You could by flying a Tempest at 100 feet off the deck at 250 MPH and get caught by a Zero (the slowest plane in the arena) who has the altitude advantage and dives on you at 300 mph.

After flying for 6 months in AH, top speed means almost nothing unless I'm chasing (or running away from)another plane and we have roughly equivlent 'e' to start with and are usually on the deck. Then I know whether I can outrun him or be caught, or catch up to him or not.

High speed handling and top speed in a dive before you reach compressability is a whole 'nother ball game. The ME109 may be listed with a higher top speed (in level fight) but a P51, P47, F6F, Spit, F4U, N1K, etc. can go much faster in a dive and hold that speed as opposed to the ME109 where if you push 400 mph you risk augering in due to control surfaces locking up.

Westy MOL · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2001, 02:53:00 PM »

"The initial 'e' state is EVERYTHING in this game. You could by flying a Tempest at 100 feet off the deck at 250 MPH and get caught by a Zero (the slowest plane in the arena) who has the altitude advantage and dives on you at 300 mph. "

That's right and how it should be. That's aircombat for ya, and it's realistic. But if the Zeke should go ahead and blow it's one pass chance on the Typhoon then he can sit there and watch the Tiffie leave him behind as the Tiffie has the horses and speed to easily get away.

Also, "SA" comes into play for if the Typhoon pilot had some then getting caught low and slow would never have happened.

I know as I've done just the above and been shot down by a Zeke while flying a Tiffie.

Westy

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]

Jase · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2001, 03:31:00 PM »

Hmm interesting. Btw Hammer nice site, when will the comparison chart be up? I enjoyed the #'s on the G10. I am aware that E is the major factor in who catches who, I was referring to that coalt simliar e encounter where the pony starts running. All things being equal the G-10 should catch it according to the hitech chart? Therefore being able to dictate the fights. I'm trying to learn about the g-10 and how it stacks up head to head with the other true E planes. Thanks

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2001, 03:38:00 PM »

The P51 will outrun you if he dives, you might be able to outrun him in level because the G10 accelerates better.

Top speed matters only after a very long time. Even then its not that important since that two planes are so simmilar in speed the overtaking speed is very very slow and will take you forever to get in gun range.

The one 9either G10 or P51) with higher intial E will be faster, unless the P51 has lots of alt to dive away then he can outrun the G10.

xHaMmeRx · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2001, 03:48:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jase:
...when will the comparison chart be up?

Comparison charts should be there for the planes I have done.

G-10
F4U-1D
D-9
La-7
N1K2-J (just for Pyro)
P-51D
Spit9

HaMmeR

Jase · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2001, 04:01:00 PM »

Ok the compairison chart is working again. VERY NICE! Extremely helpful Hammer.

dtango · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2001, 04:08:00 PM »

At low alt with little room to dive and at near co-E, I've seen G10's out run my P51D.

Which brings up an intersting point with people complaining about the "runstang"

as if the P51 is some monster plane that can extend out of any fight at will. Just thought that this is an interesting moniker for the pony in AH when The G10 can certainly do that maybe even better than the pony. Better yet how about the La-7? Or last but not least, the Tempest. All 3 definitely can extend out of a fight as well if not better than a P51D.

Animal · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2001, 04:11:00 PM »

109 G10 has much better acceleration than the P-51, but the pony has a much higher top speed than the 109.

Thunder · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2001, 04:42:00 PM »

One other thing to remember is that the 109 G-10 has a very long WEP. Say you were chasing a pony on the deck and you are 2K behind him. He is neither gaining or loosing ground. Look at your fuel, and look around you. If he has no buddies close and higher and he has a long way to go....... You WILL catch him! :)The WEP on a G-10 is a usefull Ace-in-the-Hole. Oh and it climbs well too!

Thunder

Jase · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2001, 05:05:00 PM »

Long WEP, I did not know that! Great Thx

Hangtime · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2001, 05:18:00 PM »

The 109g10's best edge is that awsome fediddlein engine... can haul it up when everything else just stalls and falls. Spiral climb is it's best move in close combat.. the best defensive move it has is a scissors; with a sweep up and roll over the top with wep when the opponets energy is drained.

Possibly the P51d's most lethal adversary.

Fly it clean, and it'll give a pony fits in a turn, too.

Bluedog · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2001, 03:28:00 AM »

About the high speed dive auger risk......to some it may be dweebish, but the 'K' key will save you most times, a 400MPH dive is NOT enough to escape a determined 109G6, let alone a G10,I have pulled G6s out of 500MPH+ vertical dives using the trim keys, sure you black out, but you allso pull out. And you better not intend on going back up as a means of escape with a 109 on your tail at 450MPH.
You need to use roll as well as speed to get away, a 109 pretty much flat refuses to respond to aileron imput at high speed. Note that I say 'roll' not 'turn', we are talking about extension, not evasion.

Sure....BEWARE the 109s tendancy to lock up in a dive while flying one, but dont count on it as a shortfalling you can use when trying to escape from one, if the guy driving is using trim keys, chances are he'll just pull out going just as fast as you are, and now you are on the deck with a whole bunch less options up your sleeve.

<S> Blue

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Bluedog ]