Author Topic: stumbled across this YT vid  (Read 2617 times)

Offline Halo46

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Re: stumbled across this YT vid
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2017, 10:06:37 PM »
I put together a rough guide, but no idea how to post a 10K file on here. It is just a wordpad text file, so it's not pretty with all the links next to what would be the linked titles in word or something. But no WP. I can email it if someone wants to look it over and fix or change any/everything.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 01:01:38 AM by Halo46 »
Used to fly as Halo46, GRHalo, Hobo and Punk at the end.

Offline ccvi

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Re: stumbled across this YT vid
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2017, 02:51:59 PM »
Main issue seems to be the keyboard. On-screen instructions don't make much sense, and also the assignment to keys doesn't make much sense any any but the US keyboard. Examples?
  • Shift+= (the +sign): Shift is already needed to reach =, so pressing shift-shift-key (shift-=) doesn't make any sense. Then in parenthesis plus-sign. Keyboards have keys, how to push a sign? German keyboards simply have a + key (no modifier required).
  • ESC and ~ to open clip board and chat: Both keys nicely next to each other, but try hitting ~ on german keyboard (AltGr (a different-functioning Alt on the right hand side) plus "+". Normal people have no use for ~ and therefore have no clue it exists or how to push it (few know its the home directory, but anything else?)
  • quote-key: doesn't exist. quote and double-quote are hidden behind shift
  • Bomb site calibration: UY next to each other, but Y is elsewhere
  • Map zoom brackets, also hidden behind AltGr (used for finger-bones breaking key-combinations)
  • shift-/ for radio 2, with the little problem that / already requires shift

It's probably not much better on French, Russian, Korean, ... keyboards.

Attracting non-US-keyboard players would probably be easier if specific defaults could be loaded. On the other hand, this would make answering simple questions like "what is the key for..." much harder.

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: stumbled across this YT vid
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2017, 03:09:48 PM »
That is not just a foreign issue ccvi.  Virtually every laptop has a custom keyboard attached to it.  They are also a problem.

It becomes and untenable situation, if game developers have to come up with different mapping for every different keyboard in the world.  I am betting within Germany there is more than one keyboard layout available (rhetorical, I found 3 different German keyboard layouts in a quick search).

Not saying it is not an issue, but there does not appear to be a good solution.

Our "Fix Key" option will, at least, address keys which are different and are not recognized.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: stumbled across this YT vid
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2017, 04:02:26 PM »
First, they didn't speak or read English very well.

Second, it is obvious they don't know much about airplanes.

Third, trying to play with a mouse.  It can be done, but it is not ideal, especially for a new player.  Airplanes need joysticks.
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Offline hitech

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Re: stumbled across this YT vid
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2017, 04:10:02 PM »
First, they didn't speak or read English very well.

Second, it is obvious they don't know much about airplanes.

Third, trying to play with a mouse.  It can be done, but it is not ideal, especially for a new player.  Airplanes need joysticks.

Whens the last time you tried to fly with a mouse?

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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: stumbled across this YT vid
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2017, 12:42:31 AM »
Drunk Germans... oy vey!

boo
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
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Offline Bizman

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Re: stumbled across this YT vid
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2017, 08:07:15 AM »
As for the keyboard layout, a printable keyboard chart might solve many issues for foreign players - and laptop users, too. The location is what matters, not what it says on the buttons. Then again, the said keyboard map should be offered annoyingly with the initial install and every patch to make people see it. And they still wouldn't know about it! :old:

Offline nrshida

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Re: stumbled across this YT vid
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2017, 03:37:49 PM »
Whens the last time you tried to fly with a mouse?

I see what you did there  :) :aok

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Offline ccvi

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Re: stumbled across this YT vid
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2017, 12:58:42 PM »
That is not just a foreign issue ccvi.  Virtually every laptop has a custom keyboard attached to it.  They are also a problem.

None of my laptops of different ages has very different layouts (that's true for laptops with US-international and German layouts). Single individual keys may have been moved slightly to fit the case, but the combination of labels on the keys is still the same as on normal keyboards.

It becomes and untenable situation, if game developers have to come up with different mapping for every different keyboard in the world.  I am betting within Germany there is more than one keyboard layout available (rhetorical, I found 3 different German keyboard layouts in a quick search).

They're basically unchanged since the XT, except for introduction of the EURO symbol and except when microsoft decides for some strange keys to be added or removed. Same frequency of changes as with US keyboards. The one shown in wikipedia doesn't really exist in the wild, also the 3rd layer of characters is to communicate with the rest of Europe, not used in the German language.

Not saying it is not an issue, but there does not appear to be a good solution.

Our "Fix Key" option will, at least, address keys which are different and are not recognized.

I was completely wrong. My assumption was that the game uses characters codes as input, but when I just tried to switch the keyboard layout it turns out it uses keycodes. i.e., whatever is printend on the key cap has no meaning whatsoever. Bizman has part of a solution:

As for the keyboard layout, a printable keyboard chart might solve many issues for foreign players - and laptop users, too. The location is what matters, not what it says on the buttons. Then again, the said keyboard map should be offered annoyingly with the initial install and every patch to make people see it. And they still wouldn't know about it! :old:

The other half of the solution could be to internationalize the on-screen instructions. I'm quite sure that windows can be persuaded to deliver information on what character is emitted by a certain key-code. Then instead of displaying "press quote" it could display "press <whatever is printed on the button of the specific computer>". That information could also be used to generate a printable map (displayable - noone uses paper anymore), to avoid manual effort to create it for every new keyboard anywhere on the world (except the part where keys are moved - at least the function would then fit to the key cap label printed).