Ways of reading skill

[Krupinski]

Yes I know, what I'm saying is that it's extremely easy to do when you shut the engine off and there's no airflow hitting the rudder, that's a bit confusing.

Also not every plane can do it with the engine on, try it in an La7, K4, Yak, or any fighter with a lot of slow speed torque. The F6F isn't one of those.

[Wiley]

HT, at really high speeds, the only way to have full control is to use combat trim. Otherwise you are fighting the nose going up.

You can either use combat trim to get pretty close to in trim, or you can manually trim nose-down too.  If memory serves, there are some planes at extreme speed you need to manually trim down or the nose rises.  Is that what you're referring to?

Another oddity is a Tempest won't fly straight with combat trim until you hit about 200mph.  Below that, it rolls and yaws a bit.

Wiley.

[AAIK]

Well, its kind of like; you want the nose to go down (at around 450+) and it wont snap down unless you pop on the combat trim. Even the regular trim just sluggishly and sparesly makes a difference, it doesnt react as quickly.

[ccvi]

There's two things.

Control speed. While the output is the same, the automatic control is much faster than the human control. Especially on the rudder, CT can reduce drag beyond what the human being can do. A rudder-only CT would be a real advantage.

Real trim tabs. Trimming in the same direction as stick input does not increase the output. On the contrary, depending on how the trimming works in the plane. Normal trim tabs extend at the end of the control surface, and move in the opposite direction. Trimming nose up makes the trim tab go down, which in turn makes the control surface go up (pushing the tail down, and the nose up). As a consequence, trimming into the desired output reduces the effective size of the control surface. Making it easier to move, but also reducing the effective output at maximum deflection.

(anecdotal evidence: At least one real POH advises against trimming nose down for inverted maneuvers to retain the maximum effect.)

[Wiley]

Well, its kind of like; you want the nose to go down (at around 450+) and it wont snap down unless you pop on the combat trim. Even the regular trim just sluggishly and sparesly makes a difference, it doesnt react as quickly.

Ah.  The reason for that is because CT uses a table to set the trims, so if your trim is a ways out of whack and you push the CT button, it instantly (more or less?) changes the trims to match the current plane speed.  Button-push manual trim does move more slowly.

I pretty much always leave CT on until I get below 200mph.  Then I like to turn it off as I find my stall fighting is smoother with it off, it's easier to hold near blackout than with it on.

Wiley.

[SPKmes]

I actually went to the DA with him and he didn't HO...but at the time I tried to merge by diving in and every time he was gaining an E advantage....it worked. I agree his aim was what made him able to do certain maneuvers I won't do because if I missed those shots, I would be far out of position.

To be fair I never DA'd him...never had any need to. I only DA with guys I like...If you're a tool in my eyes the DA will never make you a utensil

I always found if you didn't go down and away he would have got you under the belly or with an acute angle front quarter shot or at least an attempt...or he would have extended and climbed while he watched if / how you went up...many would pull an immelman... he would then just climb fast and higher turn into you and start again. He managed his E well
his low speed handling was no better than anyone else he could just finish well and at the top of climbs he was annoying with that engine off thing hahaha ( mainly because part of my SA is sound when in a fight like that looking around to ensure others aren't inbd...and if the engine goes off I had no idea where he was).... But when I fought with him...I had just as many opportunities to kill him...I just don't have the skill of aim... he did.... give him the shot...no matter how slim and boom.... very much like Grizz with the aim...although I do believe Grizz had better aim...he didn't seem to miss as much


Plane choice is obviously a factor but not an excuse... he wasn't always precise

[JunkyII]

Well, its kind of like; you want the nose to go down (at around 450+) and it wont snap down unless you pop on the combat trim. Even the regular trim just sluggishly and sparesly makes a difference, it doesnt react as quickly.

Wait are you saying you can change trim...then snap back to combat trim to give better maneuvering? Like you can maneuver quicker then someone who uses trim or just uses combat trim?

[hitech]

There's two things.
CT can reduce drag beyond what the human being can do.

It can not.  Trim in AH has no drag effect. Using trim in a real plane can both increase or decrease drag depending on both the system (not all planes have trim tabs some like 109 have movable stab) and the position of the tab.

[quote ]
Real trim tabs. Trimming in the same direction as stick input does not increase the output.
[/quote]

It does not in ah either, but if you are limited by the force of stick pull, then trimming does effectively increase output.

HiTech

[Oldman731]

To be fair I never DA'd him...

I did.  For one reason or another, I never had any trouble with him, personally.  He won all of the matches we flew, using different planes, including my favorite 202.  I've never met anyone who had a greater mastery of energy management.  And, of course, he never saw a HO that he didn't like.

- oldman

[Vraciu]

First clue is aircraft selection. LA7, Yak3, Spit16, P-51D, are often sign of a player that either is weak or marginal. When you see that unusual icon C2, P-40, KI61 and some others that you know you’re facing a potential killer.

Or it is BigR in a Mustang in which case you'll need six friends to help kill him.

[Vraciu]

everyone hates the HO, but as someone that loves to fly the Jug I will often risk the HO, especially after a water cooled foe, in a bad situation because I know that big engine in front of me can take a lot of punishment.
Todd

I like to do the HO feint.  Then they get distracted wondering why I didn't actually shoot which puts me inside their OODA loop. 

[Dace]

First clue is aircraft selection. LA7, Yak3, Spit16, P-51D, are often sign of a player that either is weak or marginal.

You could add the P-47M to that list.

[LilMak]

You could add the P-47M to that list.

Only if MA most fights took place @ 25k or more.

[Dace]

Only if MA most fights took place @ 25k or more.

Meh, it's a beast at all alts

[LilMak]

Meh, it's a beast at all alts

Well you’re going to have to educate me then. I obviously have no clue what the 47M is capable of. I clearly never fly Jugs and am not any kind of authority on the subject at all.