Author Topic: The HO  (Read 14007 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: The HO
« Reply #75 on: December 12, 2017, 03:36:17 PM »
True, it doesn't always pan out my way.  I have yet to rage quit over it though.

Good. You're better than that.  :salute :cheers:

Offline JunkyII

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Re: The HO
« Reply #76 on: December 12, 2017, 03:37:15 PM »
Yep.  He'll learn even more if he learns to merge so that he's not giving the other guy a good shot on the way in.

Wiley.
Like I said  :headscratch:
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Offline Wiley

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Re: The HO
« Reply #77 on: December 12, 2017, 03:39:00 PM »
I really don't think being either critical or encouraging makes that much diffference. Stan Laurel knew his stuff. This particular thread's been up for 10 days and had 581 reads. Even though I've eluded how much you can exploit the merge HO, not a single person has asked once how to do it technically nor asked for a tutorial or a specific training session.

Learning in a game is perhaps considered work these days.  :old:

The bolded part is very true.  However, I think demonstrating ingame what works and what doesn't work changes peoples' minds a HECK of a lot better than browbeating them on 200/the forum.

The thing is not everybody plays to learn to be the bestest fastest.  To a certain degree, training can feel like "work".  It's like golf, or pool.  Lessons can take you leaps and bounds further than muddling through on your own, but not everybody wants to put that kind of pressure on an activity that's supposed to be fun and/or relaxing.

It may not happen today or tomorrow, but I'd be surprised if this thread hasn't caused a few people to file away the fact that "Shida says he knows something about avoiding the HO and turning it against the other guy.  I'll have to hit him up about that at some point."

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: The HO
« Reply #78 on: December 12, 2017, 03:53:33 PM »
Good. You're better than that.  :salute :cheers:

 :salute  :cheers:
10-4.

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Offline Wiley

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Re: The HO
« Reply #79 on: December 12, 2017, 04:12:09 PM »
Your example of 30 HOs vs 30 death to 2 turns...A player will learn more about the merge,  angles, energy management in the fights they last 2 turns then they would in a joust.

My point was, their fun factor isn't going to necessarily be significantly higher dying in 2 turns vs getting hoed down.

Quote
Literally made this post after an AH Trainer said on 200 HOs are ok when it was 3 v 1 and they had the alt advantage....so he was saying it's OK to give a gun solution to a lower plane when there's 2 friendly helping him kill that plane....THAT'S STUPID.

There's a big difference between taking it if it's presented, and setting up for it.  Occasionally when things have gone somewhat wrong, you're at high speed and committed, the 1 has the ability to get his guns on you.  If you've found yourself in that position, why would you not fire?  Also, what a TON of guys call a "HO" in that situation is the other guy being vaguely near the front of his windscreen when he shot.

Quote
And it is evident that it is being shown to newbs because people are going for HO shots in terrible situations, you see it all the time and you watch people who have all the advantages in ACM die because they are ignorant.

You're presupposing they're being "shown" anything other than what they see other people doing in the MA.  Not everybody looks for training and is committed to being the bestest pile-it.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

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Offline JunkyII

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Re: The HO
« Reply #80 on: December 12, 2017, 04:17:20 PM »
My point was, their fun factor isn't going to necessarily be significantly higher dying in 2 turns vs getting hoed down.

There's a big difference between taking it if it's presented, and setting up for it.  Occasionally when things have gone somewhat wrong, you're at high speed and committed, the 1 has the ability to get his guns on you.  If you've found yourself in that position, why would you not fire?  Also, what a TON of guys call a "HO" in that situation is the other guy being vaguely near the front of his windscreen when he shot.

You're presupposing they're being "shown" anything other than what they see other people doing in the MA.  Not everybody looks for training and is committed to being the bestest pile-it.

Wiley.
Their fun factor will be the same correct but that doesnt help the long term for them....which leads to more fun.
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Offline bustr

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Re: The HO
« Reply #81 on: December 12, 2017, 04:34:30 PM »
98% of players will not fall under these hopes for their future growth. They play this game for fun and nothing else, not to join an ACMZen dojo or, seek a Dr. Phil of Aces High to polish their soul. Most of this conversation is AH Forum virtue signaling. You have a secret to doing something about the HO, stop competing for a Yoda part in the next Star Blooppers with a bunch of forum members competing to play Yoda against you. Just tell players how to do it at the tops of your lungs any chance you get. They will listen or tell you to go eat some high quality Ghiradelli Chocolates and to stop telling them how to play the game.

You guys are like the golf pro's at the golf pro retirement home when a grand kid comes to visit and starts telling grand dad about going to play putt putt golf.   
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline 100Coogn

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Re: The HO
« Reply #82 on: December 12, 2017, 04:46:43 PM »
98% of players will not fall under these hopes for their future growth. They play this game for fun and nothing else, not to join an ACMZen dojo or, seek a Dr. Phil of Aces High to polish their soul. Most of this conversation is AH Forum virtue signaling. You have a secret to doing something about the HO, stop competing for a Yoda part in the next Star Blooppers with a bunch of forum members competing to play Yoda against you. Just tell players how to do it at the tops of your lungs any chance you get. They will listen or tell you to go eat some high quality Ghiradelli Chocolates and to stop telling them how to play the game.

You guys are like the golf pro's at the golf pro retirement home when a grand kid comes to visit and starts telling grand dad about going to play putt putt golf.

Um, some of us enjoy discussing game-play on the AHIII forums.  (this is the right place is it not?)  :old:

Coogan
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From Wiley: If you're hitting them after they drop, that's not defense, that is revenge.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: The HO
« Reply #83 on: December 12, 2017, 11:57:07 PM »
Um, some of us enjoy discussing game-play on the AHIII forums.  (this is the right place is it not?)  :old:

Coogan
Glad someone sees the problem....look at every wishlist post and you will find some veteran of Aces High saying the game is fine the way it is....on a discussion board....

Heck other video games have dedicated Youtube/twitch streams discussing updates to the game ect ect ect....
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Offline nrshida

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Re: The HO
« Reply #84 on: December 13, 2017, 02:19:17 AM »
You have a secret to doing something about the HO, stop competing for a Yoda part in the next Star Blooppers with a bunch of forum members competing to play Yoda against you. Just tell players how to do it at the tops of your lungs any chance you get. They will listen or tell you to go eat some high quality Ghiradelli Chocolates and to stop telling them how to play the game.

'Tis indeed an attractive offer Bustr. You're suggesting people like Junky and I, say, should just hand over knowledge and technique it took hundreds of deaths and countless hours of reading, experimentation and practice to acquire to those who show absolutely no active interest in learning or working, while simultaneously being insulted and disrespected by those with no willingness or clue how to do said work themselves and who are at the same time so vitriolically bitter towards those that have, that the only conclusion can be people like Junky and I are only contributing to the discussion (about ACM, I'll remind you) in order that we can have you all worship us as some fictional movie characters from a space opera or Kung Fu movie.

Oh yes indeed, please hold my beer while I put on my Father Christmas outfit for you while you passively sit there waiting for presents and b**ching about how long it's taking.


You guys are like the golf pro's at the golf pro retirement home when a grand kid comes to visit and starts telling grand dad about going to play putt putt golf.

No we are trying to encourage people to stop taking the short-term immediate results-based lazy approach and invest a bit to time and energy to get more reward at a later date. More reward for everyone. It's ironic that this kind of laziness is attributed to the youth of today. In my experience their egos are far less entrenched in self-protection mode and are far more willing to work. The information on this forum about ACM is both abundant and peer reviewed. Each time I post something advanced I'm hoping to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable than I because it would take US ALL further. Look Bustr, here's what we call evidence:

Thank you sir. I recently heard about your past activities. Feel free to correct.

This is the post of a self-appointed Kung Fu master? Surely the attitude of an ongoing student is it not? Now look at the date. It's clearly before your accusation. Now go ahead and click on the link and roll up the thread. That was in something I spent an hour of my valuable time writing for others, with no requirement that anyone even need say thank you, let alone call me Yoda or Master Shida. And why? Because someone showed an active interest in the part of AH I'm interested in and was clearly prepared to commit some time to learning.

There are at least a dozen players in Aces High who are using ACM which is so advanced it doesn't even appear in the seminal texts. But you've decided, as the self appointed representative of the poor victimised Air Quake movement, that it's perfectly fine for the majority of inexperienced players (or uber noobs) to not grow their ACM at all, in a game centred on Air Combat (<- see, you just add the M part on the end to see the relevance of discussing these matters).

What you are essentially implying is that you prefer what Bruv119 or Joach1m does, for example, and never discuss any ACM or technique at all and make no contributions to any discussion firmly seated under this topic? Not even when asked privately for help. They'll just let you talk to the wall while out flying you and shooting you down. That would be somehow less confronting for you perhaps?

Let me just have a quick think how much effort it would cost me to do...


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Offline TWCAxew

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Re: The HO
« Reply #85 on: December 13, 2017, 08:35:22 AM »
My 2 cent's (also what i tell new guys in my squad).

Ho'ing is bad and its a sign of being a noob. If you are expecting to get HO'ed at the merge use your rudder and slide at an angle so he will (9 out of 10 times) miss you. Try and learn a good merging tactic's and learn ALL planes strengths and weaknesses so you can apply the best merge you know in a given match up/ energy state. If you must HO do it only for the following reasons. 1 to save your wingman (when he is about to be shot down) or 2 when massively outnumbered on the deck and they come straight at you (3 on your tail turning with you and another hero coming from the front).

Other than that it just shows you your not confident in your own skill, not willing to learn and do not care about a gentleman's joust.

That being said i had to HO last night as well. Situation 1 applied. It left a foul taste in my mouth doing so.


More on a personal level it can really piss me off when pilots are HO'ing for no real apparent reason. Especially when i know my opponent so much better than that.

DutchVII
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Offline Arlo

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Re: The HO
« Reply #86 on: December 13, 2017, 09:20:16 AM »
'Tis indeed an attractive offer Bustr. You're suggesting people like Junky and I, say, should just hand over knowledge and technique it took hundreds of deaths and countless hours of reading, experimentation and practice to acquire to those who show absolutely no active interest in learning or working, while simultaneously being insulted and disrespected by those with no willingness or clue how to do said work themselves and who are at the same time so vitriolically bitter towards those that have, that the only conclusion can be ..... ....snip

Way too much typing. All pretense of 'pro-community' pretty much goes down the drain in the first paragraph. The true motive of this verbose exercise can be summed up more concisely:

"I'm pissed at people taking shortcuts in killing me or trying to kill me in Aces High while I took valuable time learning ACM and all because they were too lazy to beg me to teach them ACM and all and they deserve my public derision because that will make the game better .... for me."

Offline TWCAxew

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Re: The HO
« Reply #87 on: December 13, 2017, 09:47:46 AM »
DutchVII / ULDutch
~~2019 KOTH/TOC Champion~~
https://ahevents.net/index.php/events/scenarios/about-scenarios
4 time scenario C.O. ~ As dew appears, As dew Vanishes, Such is my life, Everything in this world, Is but a dream within a dream.

Offline Arlo

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Re: The HO
« Reply #88 on: December 13, 2017, 09:57:31 AM »
For everyone.

Not through that methodology. If someone really wants to make it about 'the community' then reign in verbalized frustration and just set an example. And seriously, going on about one's valuable experience in developing ACM not being worth sharing with new players that aren't properly begging for it along with the part about not being given the respect one supposedly earned is rather telling.

No ..... this isn't about community, at all.  :old:

Offline Wiley

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Re: The HO
« Reply #89 on: December 13, 2017, 10:21:14 AM »
My 2 cent's (also what i tell new guys in my squad).

Ho'ing is bad and its a sign of being a noob. If you are expecting to get HO'ed at the merge use your rudder and slide at an angle so he will (9 out of 10 times) miss you. Try and learn a good merging tactic's and learn ALL planes strengths and weaknesses so you can apply the best merge you know in a given match up/ energy state. If you must HO do it only for the following reasons. 1 to save your wingman (when he is about to be shot down) or 2 when massively outnumbered on the deck and they come straight at you (3 on your tail turning with you and another hero coming from the front).

Other than that it just shows you your not confident in your own skill, not willing to learn and do not care about a gentleman's joust.

That being said i had to HO last night as well. Situation 1 applied. It left a foul taste in my mouth doing so.


More on a personal level it can really piss me off when pilots are HO'ing for no real apparent reason. Especially when i know my opponent so much better than that.

DutchVII

This about catches it.  About the only thing I'd add is, every single time you merge with a guy, expect him to take the shot.  Plan your merge to avoid it every time.  That way, if he doesn't you're still in good shape, and if he does take the shot, you've done what you can to avoid it and aren't relying on him playing by Marquis of Queensbury gentlemanly chivalric super moral and awesome rules which he may or may not know or care about.

Don't avoid HOing because it's not gentlemanly.  Avoid HOing because it's a bad move outside the circumstances TWCAxew described above.  Even then, it's more of a last resort but better than nothing.  And if through the flow of battle in a furball you wind up face to face with another plane by happenstance/accident, take the shot.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11