Author Topic: Radar Realism (Read 1803 times)

Airscrew · « **on:** July 20, 2001, 02:23:00 PM »

Been reading the posts last few days and we all seem to have an opinion about how the radar should be modeled. Everyone else has given one reason or another for and against the dar bar and radar positions, so here are my suggestions:
1. Radar at 500ft and above and 50-75 mile radius around fields or HQs. I know someone suggested 120 miles but thats almost half a map. Maybe the larger the field the larger the radius of the radar coverage. Also VH have no radar. Large bases 50ml rad, small bases 25ml rad. This would create realistic gaps in radar coverage. and all line of sight.
2. You have active radar at the tower and constant updates to your map, but once you take off from the field you can only update your map with radar by contacting your field or a field close to your intended target. This could be done with .dot commands ie: .radar -A26. this would update your map with enemy contacts at that time. You should be able to request updates as often as you like. And if radar is down at that field then no updates. However using this would reveal your current position at the moment you used the radio.
3. Get rid of dar unless enemy is flying over friendly airspace or a grid occupied by friendly field.
4. Also When map first starts only fields you can see are your own. Enemy bases, HQ, cities, factories, etc are reveled by overflying or intell from captured pilots when shot down over enemy fields. ie: you overfly a base and it now shows up on the map for all your countrymen or you shoot down enemy a/c and if pilot crashes or bails within 25miles (less or more) you can gather intelligence from him or his wreakage about the base location he left.

Anyway thats my idea for what its worth. Pilots in WW2 did not fly around with active or passive radar. They had the radio and their eyes to rely on. They got information from other fields, pilots, infantry, and ships. With the current map its like having my own personnal AWACs keeping me posted on whats going on. I would also suggest getting rid of the A/C direction indicator but then some people would have to learn how to read a compass and take bearings. And I have a hard enough time keeping my plane in the air.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2001, 02:25:00 PM »

Radar, as it stands now, sucks, IMO. All I ask for a no bar dar below 500 feet, and dot radar at any altitude for within 25 mile circumfrnce of any field...is this too much to ask for? Hell, no one would even notice!

DanielMcIntyre · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2001, 08:59:00 AM »

Given this some thought actually fore I saw this post. Problem is that on real fields WW2 you had patrols / fighter sweeps and pilots around all airbases.

In AH you have fighters generally only at the front in hot areas, with the occasional bomber taking off from an aifeild further back. No real patrols.

The dar bar as it is, is rather annoying.

Possible Solutions:

1. Darbar not active if AC below radar
2. Simulated NPC fighter patrols, with possible detection probability increasing with growing number of AC.
3. If all aircraft, (jabo's) stayed below radar the entire time, dar bar only appearing when field is attacked. Simply put, no Airfields were ever left undefended / unstaffed, even without dar (hq destroyed) alert should still be issued when fields are under direct attack.
4. Coast watchers for CV detection, very few CV taskgroups sailed up enemy coast undetected in RL.
5. Instead of solid, state of the art radar navigation that we have in AH to find detected AC, a directional indicator only to indicate direction of enemy aircraft.

lazs1 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2001, 09:09:00 AM »

it's fine the way it is but if you simply want to add to it's realism then have it give altitude within a couple thousand feet. I will comprimise tho.. no dar below 100 ft.
lazs

Eaglecz · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2001, 11:09:00 AM »

Well i have good compromise..
Let radar is as he is now. But infly do update only 1 per min not in real time... it could be good solotion, because we have no AirTraficCoordinators, navigators

hblair · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2001, 07:54:00 PM »

Ripsnort, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Sneak attacks are a joke the way it is now. A couple nights ago the knights were trying a lil sneak attack, how do I know? Well, as soon as they hit their own runway (!) we saw the huge bar dar, so within 2 minutes of them showing up on dar, we were razzing them on channel 1, telling them we were on our way. To make a long story short, they got 1/3 of their way to their target before they were decimated. I actually felt sorry for them.

I am for no in-flight radar, but as I'm sure that puts me so far off in the outer fringes of thinking in this game (LOL!) why not just no dar below 500ft? It's not going to ruin the game. It'll bring the fights down lower, there will be more mission-oriented gameplay, etc. I mean WB's never had in-plane radar in the main arena, did it not work? Would no radar below 500ft have a negative effect on the arena? How could it?

I heard that submarines might be introduced in the game later on. What will be interesting is to see if they show on bar dar while they are submerged.

Sorry for the semi rant, but it would be nice to hear where HTC stands on this, just some kind of hint, if its gonna stay like it is, why not tell us? It's been mentioned over and over and over, if HT or Pyro have given their position already, forgive me, I didn't see it. I'd just like to know where the game is heading is all.

Weave · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2001, 07:59:00 PM »

Kill the Bar!

GunnerCAF · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2001, 09:11:00 PM »

Radar was historically a factor to deal with. Since the MA is not a historical arena, I think it works quite well.

If you plan a sneak attack, it is not a good idea to mass everyone at one field and fly directly to the target. If you do a sneak atack, I recommend to consider radar and mask your attack. Think about what the enemy will see on dar, and plan around that.

Gunner <CAF>

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: GunnerCAF ]

hblair · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2001, 09:28:00 PM »

Quote

If you plan a sneak attack, it is not a good idea to mass everyone at one field and fly directly to the target. If you do a sneak atack, I recommend to consider radar and mask your attack. Think about what the enemy will see on dar, and plan around that.

[/b]

Gunner CAF, no disrespect intended, but we've been doing that 1 1/2 years. I know every radar masking trick there is, everybody in my squad knows 'em too, but flying around imaginary sector blocks to "spread out" your groups bar dar signature is way cheesey.

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: hblair ]

whels · « **Reply #9 on:** July 22, 2001, 09:37:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair:
Ripsnort, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Sneak attacks are a joke the way it is now. A couple nights ago the knights were trying a lil sneak attack, how do I know? Well, as soon as they hit their own runway (!) we saw the huge bar dar, so within 2 minutes of them showing up on dar, we were razzing them on channel 1, telling them we were on our way. To make a long story short, they got 1/3 of their way to their target before they were decimated. I actually felt sorry for them.

I am for no in-flight radar, but as I'm sure that puts me so far off in the outer fringes of thinking in this game (LOL!) why not just no dar below 500ft? It's not going to ruin the game. It'll bring the fights down lower, there will be more mission-oriented gameplay, etc. I mean WB's never had in-plane radar in the main arena, did it not work? Would no radar below 500ft have a negative effect on the arena? How could it?

I heard that submarines might be introduced in the game later on. What will be interesting is to see if they show on bar dar while they are submerged.

Sorry for the semi rant, but it would be nice to hear where HTC stands on this, just some kind of hint, if its gonna stay like it is, why not tell us? It's been mentioned over and over and over, if HT or Pyro have given their position already, forgive me, I didn't see it. I'd just like to know where the game is heading is all.

no dar below will be feasable when HT
has some way to let u know a base is under attack by GVs, since they would never show
on the dar cause they below 500feet. and ud only know a attack was happening when u lost a base.

hblair · « **Reply #10 on:** July 22, 2001, 10:02:00 PM »

I know what you mean there whels, but why do we all think the game has to spoon feed us all that info? what keeps a few countryman from manually doing that? They already do it now, at the fields where there is an enemy bar dar and no friendly, people go around checking those fields all the time. The only difference would be that we would need to check all our fields or risk losing a few of them, but so would the enemy. Sounds to me like it would spread the fights out.

Something to think about...

GunnerCAF · « **Reply #11 on:** July 22, 2001, 10:32:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair:
[/b]

Gunner CAF, no disrespect intended, but we've been doing that 1 1/2 years. I know every radar masking trick there is, everybody in my squad knows 'em too, but flying around imaginary sector blocks to "spread out" your groups bar dar signature is way cheesey.

Hblair,

I do respect your opinion, and my opinion differs. I think it is good for everyone to express there opinions even if they differ in a civilized maner. I have been playing here and in AW for about 7 years, and many in my squad even longer. I have been planning and leading weekly squad missions for several years.

The dar and sector lines may be a bit cheezy, but the strategy of hiding your intent and numbers are not. There may be a better way, and if there is, I am sure HTC will come up with it. I hear there are radar changes coming and I look forward to seeing what they are.

Gunner <CAF>
CO, Cactus Air Force

Pepe · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2001, 02:19:00 AM »

Again on the Top 10, here it comes the Radar thread!

I'm not posting anything else on this particular subject. Htc. looks to this pages, and I'm sure they take notes on all the things popping here.

Radar settings are one of the most dissatisfying (sp?) aspects of AH for me. Opposite to other things, there is no sign of movement, and settings remain the same.

Cheers,

Pepe

Seeker · « **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2001, 02:50:00 AM »

How about some AI?

Those of us that flew Airwarrior are used to the concept of drone goonies resuplying damaged fields.

How about an adaptation of that idea?

Going out from the standpoint that the dar, as it is, gives enough information, I propose that dar bar being directly linked to HQ status (an historical note: German radar was quite capable of spotting Lancs forming up over thier own air fields), a reduction of HQ capacity resulting in a reduction of radius of coverage from HQ.

Secondly, dot radar could be 100% coverage, from 0 feet to 50K, as perfomed by drone gooney "awacs" patrolling on a set pattern around a sector; and in a radius of 12 miles. Kill the gooney, the dot radar goes. Goony respawn time a matter of arena management, and a player should be able to take the role. This may give a use for aircraft such as the Fiesler Storch or the Lysander, for instance.

Fester' · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2001, 04:47:00 AM »

why not just use sector bars for ground vehicles only?