A Terrain and Game Play observation.

[bustr]

For the last two terrains I've created, the goal has been to understand how the "current player" community utilizes the terrain. I've also attempted to shrink the spacing of feilds to facilitate faster turnaround and integrate GVs more closely into the action front determined by air combat capture initiatives. I went so far as to not have some airfields accessible by GVs to promote air combat only initiatives. So far I've accomplished this for the small numbers we have compared to years ago and refining it in a third terrain at this time.

We are not who we once were when 400 players were the norm at prime time. We no longer play this game as a strategic land grab game dominated by squads leading those initiatives competing against each other. That mechanism is still in place and we still capture feilds but, we do it as an arena full of lone players who just happen to be attacking the same location. Especially if we see our friends heading that way or that is where the largest number of our countrymen are located. For the most part our game is played like a first person shooter where killing the other guy by any means possible and getting away with it rules the arena.

On Oceania the center furball island was a test for me to observe how air combat players really want to interact with each other. Pretty much hoard for safety and shoot each other in the back and face any way they can. Just like in the WW1 arena, 8 vs 1 doesn't appear wrong to the 8 in that tiny island arena. Then last night I watched on my first terrain BowlMA the capture over 3 hours of the the three airfields on the tip of one island that have no GV spawns and are 19 miles apart from each other. There was no organized initiatives, everyone was going to the same location. Some remembered to bring bombs, the rest only wanted to vulch(shoot people in the back). The combat to take each of these feilds with no interference from GVs took forever and at times was fierce. The shortened distances kept players engaged due to the shortened transit times.

Because of our small numbers I chose on both terrains to run GV spawns to follow obvious air combat initiatives to keep the largest number of players for each country working together. I limited the numbers of vBases to facilitate this. Hitech does like having a number of airfields with no GV access to them, I've tested this on both terrains and it works for air combat initiatives. It also leaves the Gvers to attack undefended feilds...

Observing the base captures and air combat last night of the three airfields with no GV access helped me realize Melee arena terrains can be built 5sector x5sector while having almost the same number of feilds as a 10x10 by using 19miles as the maximum distance between airfields. With our current prime time numbers, 150 players proportionally will fill and create activity like 400 players on a 20x20 or 10x10. The action will resemble the WW1 arena a bit more and strats will be an interesting conundrum. Something would have to be done about the fact most strat bomber initiatives would fly off the map to avoid fighting and to run away in the same direction to get home safely. And the uncapturable feilds, one maybe two with the 262 enabled at one or two rear area feilds to not destabilize the smaller arena area. A smaller arena area would bring out the greifer in many but, is really how the "current player" community is playing in the Melee arena. Any organized initiatives would be icing on the war win cake.

Below the screen shots show the new 10x10 terrain I'm building with all of the locations for feilds mapped on it and a 5sectorx5sector box in red on it. The second is a 5x5 arena with the feilds from the red box outlined on my new 10x10 terrain. That 5x5 area has about the same number of feilds as on NDisles condensed to 19miles separation. My last two terrains have been experiments with 19miles separation and it helps generate activity with our current lower numbers than the AH2 days. Frankly Artik's geomap terrain generating program would be ideal to rapidly generate new 5x5 terrains, right now I can only see the next mountain range I have to sculpt on "riftval". I would hope whoever runs that thing will spend the time painting them better than most of the Melee arena terrains since the AH3 terrain editor gives us that ability now. Our competitors go to that trouble and why I do.








As you can see I still have a ways to go sculpting my new terrain before I can submit it for rotation.





Yes at the left end of that valley is a 4,000ft deep crack which is the prototype for a massive crack system in the 5,000ft high green area at the back end of each country. I tested how narrow I can make the crack's floor to keep it flat to allow GV's to drive the length of it. About 1\4mile or slightly smaller......





     

[waystin2]

Facehugger has been revealed!

[Max]

That ravine reminds me of Pizza I 

[bozon]

bustr, please do not use such high plateus. At 5000 feet my poor mossie has already moved to the lower half of the AH speed ranking...

P47/38s rejoice!

[8thJinx]

That ravine reminds me of Pizza I

And Beta2.

[JunkyII]

The problem with 8 v 1 as you mentioned isn't terrains, it's just accepted by the community which it shouldn't be if 2 or 3 guys are already engaging 1 a new map isn't going to change the 4th guys mind jumping in on the fight and ending it more quickly....the community accepts dweebery these days as "let players play the way they want" which is garbage IMO.

But I do like this new map, will be fun making all those dweebs look like scrubs on it.

[8thJinx]

Bustr, if the terrain features you're working on are symmetric from one country to the next, one option might be to do just one country and then copy that over to the other two, working in the RAW file format, 16 bit gray scale.  Have you tried Lightroom?  I messed around with it a few weeks ago.  I used it to copy continents and islands, and it even preserved the atlas texture metadata.  IIRC the only thing you have to be wary of is scaling elevations.

[bustr]

There is a symmetry of gross land shape so I can even the feilds and it ends at that. Those rift valleys will be carved differently and the crack system will run differently. I like carving realistic looking topography with the terrain editor then painting it. It's the same as guys who like to make their own bamboo fly rods or build kayaks and canoes with teak. 

No two islands on Oceania are the same if anyone bothered to look or on BowlMA. The field placements are so everyone starts off with equal opportunities. If Hitech is amenable to 5x5(1024x1024) arenas with the data I've presented, you are finally at a scale that Artik's program can rapidly create an arena to real world scale as long as there is no ocean. Otherwise you will have to do an ocean terrain with small islands and archipelago. A one or the other, not both like 20x20 or 10x10 allows.

This will allow mass production of MA terrains by players who don't want to invest the time and address this gamer generation's short attention spans and need for constant change. "If" 8thJinks you are creating drop in 2x2 objects for tank combat and Hitech tests them to not kill FPS, a 5x5 would be an ideal partner for such a rapid lego block style quick terrain creation style. I suspect this would make it possible for the AvA and Easyscor to get involved with Melee arena terrains. I just hope you gents will actually spend the time to paint them to compete with the competition who does do that for the short attention span gamers. Hitech used to get whined at about that before AH3 and the upgrade in terrain eye candy because of IL2, RoF, DCS, WoT, and WT.

I get the sense no one but HTC really reads my observational analysis from each of my terrains and why I built them to test the player community's use of them for feild distance placement and GV combat interaction with the new clutter tiles. Or how to bring both air combat players and ground combat players together to maximize player population density with our smaller prime time numbers. All I get are arguments from players who have never built and gotten into rotation a terrain for the Melee arena.

bozon,

Look at this screen shot, past the red circle are no feilds. The canyons are to create logical terrain in the highlands empty space outside of the red circle. Look closely at the screen shot at where all of the white field location squares are.  The elevations inside of the red circle on average are 1000ft down to SL. I'm bringing the strats in closer on this terrain to expose them and increase activity against them. Otherwise they are useless in most respects, and my last two terrains have also tested how little allowing some of them to be active targets impacts anything more than a few players vanity here in these forums, But, generates activity.

I created this terrain first as a hightmap in grayscale knowing with 16bit grayscale 1000 was sea level or zero feet elevation. Those color rings are gross elevation blocks I chose for the RAW file that when imported popped up this terrain. Then I used a painting tool that allowed me to choose elevation bands to automate painting across the whole terrain and very quickly painted in the elevation bands. They are a guide with fixed elevation bands to keep me to scale as I create topographical features and then cut and paint everything to the simple question: where will the water run to? Ever really looked at some of our competition's terrains, they combine realistic eye candy with game gimmicks for gamers.

Anyone not see my answer to where will the water run to? As for gimmicks, AH doesn't have many of those due to being a seat of your pants combat MMO. And that's what Oceania was about with streams and bridges and other tests of micro terrain for GV combat using the limits of the terrain editor. This one is a 10x10 terrain and I've condensed the feilds into an 8x8 terrain from the tests on field placement from my first two terrains. They generated more activity because of the large number of feilds set to the minimum of 19 miles apart. So I hope Hitech will consider the results of my testing.


   

[bustr]

bozon,

Unless you build these things yourself, most viewers in these forums really don't see what is being described or project their own bias onto what is being presented. Since right now I'm the only player actively building Melee arena terrains, two so far, I catch a boat load of un-necessary flak and attacks on my work. And none will build a terrain themselves so, possibly with the data over a year presented, Hitech will allow a 5x5 in the MA and more players will be willing to invest the time. The scale will certainly create an illusion of massive activity making it easier to find things to do with\against other players.








With a 10x10 terrain, custom work like this takes time and every time I show bits and pieces, projections to how they will negatively impact game play or, personal biases and strange expectations become the conversation.  So, I have to create two more of these rift valleys, finish the stepped cliffs from 12,000ft down onto the 5000ft highland completely around the 10x10 1000mile border and fill the wastelands of 5000ft terrain with canyon land crack systems. Only then can I create the lowlands down to the water where the fields will be with streams, bridges, topo features around towns. And those micro 6x6mile terrains around towns and feilds are all for GV players since you "don't drive planes to the fight". And finally three ports with a CV and BB task group from each to turn the center pond into a ship combat arena with no where to hide. So you were telling me not to build a 5000ft canyon land for what reason bozon?? Everyone tells me what I can't, or what they want done to my terrains, or they won't be happy each and every time I do this.........

I'll use a quote from Hitech with my own slant: Dear Math, please build your own terrain.

[bozon]

bustr take it easy, your maps are the best that we have.
I am not telling you what to do. My comments comes from the shudders that I get when I remember the first version of buzzsaw map with the 9k elevations. If the action is to happen inside the basin rather than on the rim, I suppose this will be no issue at all.

[8thJinx]

"If" 8thJinks you are creating drop in 2x2 objects for tank combat and Hitech tests them to not kill FPS, a 5x5 would be an ideal partner for such a rapid lego block style quick terrain creation style. I suspect this would make it possible for the AvA and Easyscor to get involved with Melee arena terrains. I just hope you gents will actually spend the time to paint them to compete with the competition who does do that for the short attention span gamers. 

Yes, I am creating 1x1, 2x2, and 4x4 drop in land objects to submit for approval, along with berms and micro hills.

You can effectively creating them in a manner that does not kill frame rate, as long as you follow a very, very specific protocol, and keep certain counts under certain limits.  I'll post a thread on how to create one once I'm done with the first one.

Painting a land object is a give and take.  I personally don't want to paint every single poly with a custom diffuse and normal map.  I think it's easier to use the shades in an alpha map  to dampen out trees, clutter, and buildings from the atlas textures for certain things, than it is to go the other way and paint everything with a custom texture.  That also allows for the different terrsets to show through to keep continuity.  But, that's not to say that 100% of it will be the terrset.  I'll be posting a thread on how to do that, too.  One thing I can promise, is that with the tools we have right now, these land objects will be quite different and quite fun to GV in.

[AAIK]

I came up with a similar design a few years ago. I think you think too much bustr trying to make things pretty and functional. If I were you I would stick with functional, pretty stuff generally deteriorates the gameplay and has little to no positive impact. A completely flat terrain would have more playability then one where you force types of fights using altitudes of terrain.

Not to mention, if you had simpler maps you would be able to output much more of them!

[bustr]

If Hitech approves of 5x5 and 13-19 mile separation for airfields, you gents can whack out lego block Leroy Jenkens level fair for gamer weenies every month. I Like Creating the Terrains I Design just like I spent 10 years as a Japanese sword sayashi. All of the WT, Il2, DCS, and WoT terrains have one thing in common, the detail in the eye candy. Otherwise most of our terrains have looked exactly like all the complaints that have ever been made about them including when converted to AH3 except for Greebo's and one other someone spent some time with.

AAIK build a terrain and stop trying to tell me how to build terrains for AH3. I'm presenting this to Hitech because I took a year and tested the feasibility with two full sized terrains and monitored how players utilized the tests I put in place on them. He is not going to suddenly change direction without some real data. I learned that from the two years of the alpha\beta testing I did for AH3. He is looking for ideas to help his game, he favors data, this may or may not be the data he likes. I've given this test a year while most of this audience screamed at him to make "any kind of change" or gave him ideas with no data from inside of AH3 to back them up. It's surprisingly easy to create terrains following the terrain rules, get them into rotation following Hitech's requests for changes, then monitor how players utilize them. And players as they use the terrain are a wealth of information on what works and what is same old, same old. It's not hard to then evolve your construction based on the players and your growing experience with the terrain editor. It takes a bit more commitment to that idea than it takes to opine in these forums.   

8thJinx if 5x5 is allowed, they are so small for the MA, poorly designed and poorly painted will stand out like you haven't taken a bath in 6 months. That is a risk I can say with confidence now will impact the AH3 image for new and old players if terrains can be banged out as fast as Greebo pops out skins and they lack the quality like Greebo has mastered. You can hide a lot of laziness and lack of creativity in a 20x20 or 10x10, it's the heart of terrain complaints since I can remember. This was obvious after I reviewed all of the terrains in rotation to look at their overall construction and game flow rational. There have been some Great terrains in 15 years, the rest have been "so so" but, were tolerated because they filled the queue to give something different from time to time. A 5x5, everything is too close together for poor design and quality, which was part of my experiment with the center furballing island on Oceania. Players noticed everything I did to that tiny space while gleefully slaughtering each other due to the purpose driven closeness of the airfields and the bridge object experiment.

New and different is fun for the customer but, they start looking at everything else in a holistic relationship because you the designer are setting their brains to that expectation. So poorly painted gimmics won't feel right, nor will poorly constructed and painted terrain. Ever noticed when WT does a themed tank arena say for North Africa, the villages they keyston cops through are North African...... 

[AAIK]

...

[icepac]

WTG bustr............nice terrains.

Don't the super vocal minority squash creativity.