White Flag...No white Flag

[Vinkman]

Perhaps I'm not clear on how the flag system works but it seems the town flag goes white when the requisite number of buildings are down. But that does not apply to the guns. So the white flag does not mean the base is capture-able. Is that correct?

I also noticed that the V-base flags don't turn white when the base is capture-able. I assume this is because a pre-determined number of buildings do not need to be destroyed to capture a V-base. the requirement is instead linked to the auto guns (all guns?, which guns). So the flag is tied to building status for capture only. Not the base is capture-able.

Also base flashing is done when a vehicle (Plane or GV) is inside the radar ring. But not troops or pilots that have bailed out. So a GV upps, lets troops out 3 miles out and towers. the troops keep running with no indication that the base in under attack.

It seems an odd series of indicators that aren't consistent. When I brought it up the other day as we were defending a base half of the folks seems to think the system was unclear and confusing, the other half thought the confusion was great for sneaking bases which should be kept the way it is.

I prefer if the flag indicated the base was ready to be captured (Town or V-base), and that bases flashed when down troops were running within the dar circle indicating that ENEMIES were in the area. But I by no means think it needs to be changed, just admitting that I was confused by system and I've been playing a long time.

Thoughts?

[Randy1]

The flag can turn white without any guns being down.  I want to say the number of building required to be down is around 80+.

The flag has to be white and alll guns down and 10 troops to capture a base.  If half the troops go in and or a gun or flagpops those troops are gone.

In troops that are in the map room are good until a gun or the flag changes.

The flag on a vbasr does not change is correct.  Should it?  It would be nice but we have worked around that for sometime.

[Vinkman]

The flag can turn white without any guns being down.  I want to say the number of building required to be down is around 80+.

The flag has to be white and alll guns down and 10 troops to capture a base.  If half the troops go in and or a gun or flagpops those troops are gone.

In troops that are in the map room are good until a gun or the flag changes.

The flag on a vbasr does not change is correct.  Should it?  It would be nice but we have worked around that for sometime.

Most players learn that bases flash and there is GV dar when enemies are present. Why have an exception for running troops?
Most player learn that the white flag means the base is capture-able but think an auto gun will protect them because it will shoot and kill troops. Many don't realize that the white flag doesn't not mean that, and that guns being down is a requirement whether that position can shoot troops or not.
Since they think White flag is when a base can be taken, that thinking holds over to v-base. "Oh we're Blue flag so we're ok"  The flag indicator is confusing.

yes any set of arbitrary rules can be learned eventually. But ignorance created by confusing indicators seems like a frustrating way to give the knowledgeable an advantage.

I was defending a V-base and fought of 5 guys trying to take it. I saw on the map that there was no GV dar, or planes in the sector. The guns weren't coming up for another 12 minutes, but eh flag was Blue, no one was in the sector (not blinking) I'm thinking of jumping in a plane to intercept the next batch of bombers coming to drop the VH. VH is up. Map is clear, Flag is blue. I land my 7 tank kills and pull up the clipboard map. Still not flashing If a tank spawns in, I can punch out and up a GV to defend. I have no idea I should sit there defending the map room for another 12 minutes (more if the strats are damaged). How long should a person sit on a base with no attackers in sector? How is that intuitive? or Fun?
I'm by myself.
I'm using what I think is good info to make an informed decision. Before I can even move the next airbase the base is captured out from under me and I'm moved to other base across the map where the AH logic thinks I need to be.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?


Now many vets love that a base can be sneak captured like this. Because they are in a secret knowledge club. But that not's a real strategy, it's just gameness created by confusing Flag and Flashing indicators.

Now if we tell everyone how to do it, you can no long sneak a base, but every defender will have to sit at empty bases for long periods of time just in case there a load of troops running of from 12 minutes out.  Seems like a needless waste of people's time. 

 

[Lusche]

Most players learn that bases flash and there is GV dar when enemies are present. Why have an exception for running troops?

Technically, it is not an exception. The player (in the vehicle) triggers the alarm, so when the player is gone, the alarm ceases. 

[Randy1]

Dropping troops at a distance is a low percentage base take strategy most of the time.  The longer the troop runs, the more likely they will be spotted.  They got lucky on the base they got from you since just a couple of seconds sooner and you would have seen the troops. 

The GV base flag is one of the confusing items new players have to learn. 

Maybe they will change it someday.



 

[redcatcherb412]

Bases with towns need a white flag and the 8 town guns down
The HUGE bases I am not sure how many town guns there are
Vbase just needs the 6 Auto guns down (no white flag)
Ports need the 8 auto guns down (no white flag)
Bases with no towns and maproom by flag on base need 11 auto guns down (no white flag)

right clicking a field icon and selecting 'field down times' will tell you at a glance without having to remember all the dotDT commands.

[pembquist]

I'd like to know how long troops that have made it to the map room live. Is it as Randy said until a town gun pops or the flag turns colorful or is the shorter of what Randy said or 1/2 the un-adjusted downtime of the guns or town buildings; the way it is with objects and ordnance damage.

[Dundee]

You can tell if a town is White Flag by using the dot command .dt fxxflg if it says all living it is not White Flag. If the return data shows a time the Town is white flagged. You can check via the dot command to see what auto guns are down on the Vbase. 0 - 5 - 6 guns. Towns have auto acks B,C,D,E. F, 10,11,12 = 8 guns. 1ijac has some of best maps in the game for all the elements in a base their numbers and locations pm him and I’m sure he can send a set, if not I have the complete set

[ML52]

How far will troops run? I thought it was only 1 mile. Also is there a max height they can be dropped from a goon, does the chute open right away or do they open at low alt?

[1ijac]

Troops open right after drop and float down.  You can drop them from whatever alt you get your goon to.

The flag is linked to the buildings status and not the auto guns.  The Vbase has no buildings to kill to take it, so the flag never turns white.  You just need to kill the auto guns.  Manned guns can be up when you take the vbase , port or airfield.

Vinkman,  If you would like me to send you the map pack where I labeled everything on printable maps, PM me your e-mail and I will send them to you.  8thjinx did a great job on the clipboard maps and I think Blauv has some good ones also.  Let me know if you are interested.  You or anyone else are more than welcome to them.

one-eye

[1stpar3]

I was under the impression that troops last as long as V supplies, 10 min I think, or until green flag or gun pops. They drop in chutes, at around 800 ft/min, was last I timed it anyway(in AH2). I believe the 1 mile distance is accurate. Lusche would need to weigh in on that though

[Crash Orange]

The flag is a holdover from the switch to the then new town in AH2. With the trees and the irregular layout it was close to impossible to see if there was one small building still up so you'd have 6 people frantically driving through and flying over the town looking for standing buildings and missing the capture because they missed one. When we went to a percentage < 100% of town having to be down it became even more necessary because no one had any way of knowing how many buildings were down and whether it was enough for a capture.

It isn't really needed anymore because the town status is indicated when you mouse over the base on the clipboard map, but it is a useful visual indicator that you can see without bringing up the clipboard.

It isn't at all necessary for guns being up to keep the flag colored, because you can just right click the base and look at down times to see whether 8 town guns are down or not - all of the towns have 8 AA guns and they are the only auto-acks that appear below town buildings in the downtime display. And it would be counterproductive to have guns affect the flag and the town status in the mouse over because as long as even one gun was up you wouldn't have any way of knowing whether the necessary number of buildings had been destroyed, short of counting that long list in the down times display.

My understanding is that troops that have entered the map room still count for capture until either a gun pops or enough buildings pop to change the flag, at which point you'll need 10 troops again after destroying the offending ack and/or building. I can't swear this is correct, though. I do know that re-spawning only kills your troops if they are still running, but once they've entered the map room they stay alive regardless of what the player does. The re-spawning killing your troops feature was added back when LVT spawns on land were common and one player could get 80 or 100 troops running at a time by spawning in, dropping troops immediately, towering, and then spawning in and dropping again while the first set of troops kept running..

[Lusche]

To my understanding, Paratroopers are just another kind of special 'ords'. They damage the maproom, and when the maproom gets enough damage, it goes boom and the trigger is captured.
It also has a downtime given in object settings, 30 minutes.
On all other objects, partial damage stays for half base downtime, so if maproom/troops works the same, troops would 'stay alive' for 15 minutes. Which is consistent with my (casual) observations in the MA.

Of course, you could ultimately test that in a custom arena. 

[1stpar3]

  Sounds correct. That was why I decided on 10k as "Highest Drop" elav. They dropped at around 1 min per 1k(more like 800 ft,but rounded up) and still left "Run TIME". That was in custom arena. Came in at 7k, then the pull up and over, troop drop as most do. Took right at 13 min for capture...1 drunk was a bit further out   You can also test in Off-Line. For those that dont know how to do custom arenas, same outcome and didnt need to adjust settings for arena. Just go into Arena Set Up and then Objects and destroy Town and guns as your goon is on climb out. Can even change base country ownership of base you up from, would suggest making sure that you destroy the closer guns to town as well though

[bustr]

What are you guys going to do when I make about half the airfields on my next terrain have the map room next to the tower? That small airfield configuration is proving to cause some pretty hot fights for a sustained amount of time.

Once Hitech made the bridges viable as a micro combat terrain feature and accepted my use of a map room on the airfield, he opened the door to getting away from having to use the town for every airfield capture design. And who knows what evil 8thJinx will create that Hitech likes enough to introduce as a terrain object available to terrain builders? Under that scenario, what is a what flag......... 

Don't worry, I'm still of the opinion that towns and the micro combat around them can be enhanced by the same testing I've been doing with my terrains. Something like this test of a micro terrain design recently. Flag, white flag, seems a pretty irrelevant thing to worry about. That micro terrain test would work just as well if I removed the town and put the capture mechanism directly on the field next to the tower.