Current 190 pilots

[atlau]

Oh and the final insult. Just logged into the MA to give the 14 another whirl and I can't fly it. Planes with ENY lower than 6 are not allowed (Spit14 is 5) but I could up a K-4 no problem (ENY 15), outclimb a Spit14 anyway and for a full ten minutes, enough WEP to forget about it AND comfortably out-manouevre an F6F, a Corsair and a Spit16 while I was about it.  :fur3ious

I disagree about outmaneuvering a spit16 or f6f, but i certainly have much better success with a k4 than the spit14 even with the  worse view and my inability to aim taters effectively. Maybe i need to try the Spit14 more.

[atlau]

Regarding the score discussion driving aircraft choices, i think it would be cool if they instead had a "score by plane type" instead. It would help recognize folks who find ways of doing well in more difficult plane types. Tongs in his ki61 comes to mind.

[save]

Maybe one day, an A8 can turn with a fully loaded Lancaster ...

[nrshida]

I disagree about outmaneuvering a spit16 or f6f, but i certainly have much better success with a k4 than the spit14 even with the  worse view and my inability to aim taters effectively. Maybe i need to try the Spit14 more.

Out-manoeuvre does not mean out-turn in the conventional aerodynamic sense. Especially when you factor in vertical fighting. Not just the ability to run out of airspeed with more potential energy than your opponent, but what happens regarding stability and manoeuvrability in that regime. A K-4 can comfortably rotate its thrust vector faster and in more varied ways than a Spixteen when both have insufficient airspeed to turn conventionally. Don't tell anyone I told you that.

It's increasingly evident that the Spit14 is unfairly or inaccurately modelled in AH presently. I blame the lack of an equivalent to Luftwhiners. Too bad, balance is important in all things then the OP would not have been made about the present scourge of picking Dora pilots. Because they'd be forced to learn more ACM. Such as Debrody, Pervert and a few notable Dora pilots did in better days. They were a sight to behold.

[atlau]

The Spit16 climbs almost as well as the k4 at MA altitudes and has better roll rates and more docile slow speed handling. While some experts can use the k4s torque effectively i just dont think that its enough to claim that the k4 is more maneuverable overall.

1v1 coE, the only way i see a k4 winning is if it uses its climb to create separation to then come back with an energy advantage.

[nrshida]

The Spit16 climbs almost as well as the k4 at MA altitudes and has better roll rates and more docile slow speed handling. While some experts can use the k4s torque effectively i just dont think that its enough to claim that the k4 is more maneuverable overall.

1v1 coE, the only way i see a k4 winning is if it uses its climb to create separation to then come back with an energy advantage.

Under what bizarre circumstance would the merge be co-e? The K-4 has a significantly higher top speed the kinetic energy of which results in a greater potential energy at the end of a sequence of carefully selected merges. The Spixteen has to force a sustained turn fight which he cannot do against a Fokker who knows his Messerschmidt. 

The Spixteen is not more docile nose-high and slow. It's the other way around.

[atlau]

By that same logic a D9 is more maneuverable than a spit16 or an a6m.

Sure you can hit the merge fast, blow thru and outclimb the spit and come back with a healthy altitude advantage. Guess my definition of maneuverability is different than yours.

[nrshida]

By that same logic a D9 is more maneuverable than a spit16 or an a6m.

No. You're missing half the logic.

Sure you can hit the merge fast, blow thru and outclimb the spit and come back with a healthy altitude advantage. Guess my definition of maneuverability is different than yours.

It must be. I said nothing about blowing through or sustained climbing.

[nrshida]

Curious Atlau, why you seem to claim the K-4 is not manoeuvrable yet you've got a 57/4 k/d ration in a K-4 this tour alone? How then do you explain this successful, extraordinarily high k/d ratio?

[Lusche]

Yes and good luck trying with its extremely poor handling and engine characteristics. To think it was once perked 

I vividly remember all the discussions back when some of us lobbied for an unperked Spit 14. "Spit 14s will dominate the arena" or  "All you ever will see are Spit 14s then" 

[nrshida]

I vividly remember all the discussions back when some of us lobbied for an unperked Spit 14. "Spit 14s will dominate the arena" or  "All you ever will see are Spit 14s then" 

Standard. I don't really understand ENY either but why it's 3 times more (restrictive) the a K-4 is simarly perplexing. Was it once modelled differently or something?

[DmonSlyr]

I'd much rather see people in 109Ks than 190Ds. Would make for much better fighting atmosphere.

The spit14 should be flown similar to a P51. Most people just get too aggressive with spits. It's hard not to be. One thing I dislike about the spit14 is that the wings blow off very easily.

The spit16 in my experience is much easier to maneuver in than a 109K. The spit16 is one of only planes that can do a triple Emmilman. I think it has better zoom climb than a K4. Anyone who knows what they are doing will beat 109s pretty quickly in a spit16. The 109s also have a harder view out of the cockpit and aren't as responsive as a spit.

If you look at the overall K/D if the 190D compared to spit16, La7s, and 109s, it's higher because the 190D doesn't get into tangos as much as these planes. It has to be flown more timidly, and therefore creates the perception that there is a lack of fights.

I actually still do prefer the P51D over the 190D. I like to fly more aggressively and force overshoots. With a 190D or temp, you can't easily win 1v1s against better turning planes after a few turns. Running away is the only escape, and thats boring, for me.

[bacon8tr]

To the original OP.  I was never "elite" "great" or even "average" in anything in the game, but I absolutely loved the A5! I loved fighting in it and it was a capable stall fighting A/C with the rudder it boasts.  Maybe I should come out of retirement, knock off the rust and mix it up with the A5.  Is Boo still around? He was a helluva 190 stick. 

[atlau]

Curious Atlau, why you seem to claim the K-4 is not manoeuvrable yet you've got a 57/4 k/d ration in a K-4 this tour alone? How then do you explain this successful, extraordinarily high k/d ratio?

Id say that im an average stick who leverages the strength strength of the k4. But its strength in my opinion is its incredible acceleration and climb rate to dictate a fight, but that its not an incredibly maneuverable aircraft. A spit16 will hand me my butt by an equally skilled player in a neutral 1v1 unless i create enough seperation and generate an energy advantage

[Max]

To the original OP.  I was never "elite" "great" or even "average" in anything in the game, but I absolutely loved the A5! I loved fighting in it and it was a capable stall fighting A/C with the rudder it boasts.  Maybe I should come out of retirement, knock off the rust and mix it up with the A5.  Is Boo still around? He was a helluva 190 stick. 

I saw Boo just the other day. Jump back in !