How to hide from GVDAR.

[bustr]

I never tire of seeing new things in the MA becasue after 18 years you either eventually find something many won't share or, a result of a change Hitech introduces with a major update.

I found a way to make your tank invisible for real.

I was flying a storch helping a tanker try to find a GV that was shelling our field. GVDAR said he was right there with us, I couldn't see him, my tanker couldn't see him and the tracer of each round was coming out of a space on the slope of a tree covered hill that was all tan grass. Every time I would fly up and near that empty space a round would take out my storch. My tanker and I would compare what we saw and he was convinced the enemy GV was in the woods on the top of the hill rather than lower on the grass covered slope where the tracer originated. So I change my flight path to look at the area the tracer would always originate from and I see exactly where the tracer originated. Seems with the default graphics settings I was finally close enough to see the bushes under a lone tree out in the open on that slope. But, the GV was shut down and I saw no Icon and no GV inside of the bushes he had driven into and shut down in. Only the origination flash and tracer. So I spent the next 5 minutes convincing my tanker to drive to that tree and look for a GV. He get there and now he is unhappy and thinks I'm wrong. But, that is exactly where the flash and tracer line originates from now each time I test it by letting the GVer shoot my storch. So to make me happy my tanker shoots point blank blind into the center of the bushes and he gets a kill.

So if you want to hide from the consequences of GVDAR, find those bushes Hitech set to allow you to drive through them. Only drive into them until your GV is fully covered, then shut down. GVDAR will say you are there, storch's will not be able to see you nor GV's passing by just next to you. And you probably can shoot them and not get found for some time. I hope turning off tracers does not turn off tank main gun tracer lines. It was only becasue of that while sacrificing a few storch's to triangulate the GV's location did I discover how to hide from GVDAR.

[colmbo]

Doesn't sound like he was hiding from gvdar, just hiding from you.

[molybdenum]

I found a way to make your tank invisible for real....
So if you want to hide from the consequences of GVDAR, find those bushes Hitech set to allow you to drive through them. Only drive into them until your GV is fully covered, then shut down. GVDAR will say you are there, storch's will not be able to see you nor GV's passing by just next to you. And you probably can shoot them and not get found for some time. I hope turning off tracers does not turn off tank main gun tracer lines. It was only becasue of that while sacrificing a few storch's to triangulate the GV's location did I discover how to hide from GVDAR.

I'm sure your discovery will appeal to some players, but imo it just exacerbates the problems the institution of the GV dar created. Now it's even more logical to hide vs fight. And even sneaky people like me wanted a fight at some point! Hide and seek is tedious and draws players away from more dynamic stuff the community as a whole would enjoy; and so, this loophole (right word?) is a problem.

And (not trying to be pedantic here, this is a main concern of mine) the GV did not hide from GV dar. It just hid from searchers. The GV dar still announced that a well-hidden GV was there somewhere in a certain radius, and that knives the stealth aspect of GVing that's so important. Your discovery doesn't help people like me avoid the consequences of GV dar in the slightest.

[bustr]

It's an unintended consequence of the new system. Some players look for those and guard that secret from others and exploit it at every opportunity. I just report them as bugs as I find them. If you park under a tree and watch planes fly by, you will see there is a zone around the foliage that the plane's icon disappears as you view the plane up through the foliage. I suspect parking inside of the cluster of bushes did that in reverse to my storch and my tanker I was vectoring to the hidden GV's location.

It's probably one of those gray area loop holes in the game functions that fixing it may have more unintended consequences than it's worth. So I'm posting how it works as a heads up for everyone to know about a new cloaking wrinkle to the game. If you are getting shot and can't see the bad guy no matter what you do, lay a few rounds into bushes or clumps of small trees you know you can drive your tank through. Now I know how I killed two M3 in some bushes where I saw only one run into to hide from me. I just poured rounds from my IL2 into the bushes blind and got two kills on the return pass.

[icepac]

A film would be cool.

[TyFoo]

Finding answers to questions should be more preferable than drawing inaccurate, pre-mature conclusions to a GV’ers gameplay or motive.

I wasn't aware that shelling a base constitutes hiding from GV dar. The player certainly didn't seem to be avoiding engagement. Especially if he was shooting your Storch out of the air. Which evidently you “let” him do more than once.

Since when is hiding in bushes an exploit? What was HT thinking when he included vegetation in the game? I gather from the discussion that GV’s in WWII used other means of camouflage and would never have thought to hide under a tree or in a bush!....lol

Oh and where is the evidence that the enemy player knows of and is safe guarding an exploit in the game?

I don’t see the OP participate in the ground war and that’s not to say he does or does not. But here is a little tidbit.....Any GV’er with the slightest experience or even a new player that has been shot down 25+ times will use all resources available to extend their playing time per sortie.  Maybe it’s shutting down the engine to listen for other vehicles, or putting a tree in between himself and an approaching GV, hide around a corner, sit on or over a hill, hide under trees from approaching aircraft or heaven forbid hide in a bush. It’s not new, not an exploit, and certainly not a secret.

BTW ......the guy that shot you, is very experienced, well liked by all sides - shoots multiple Storches down each month and I don’t ever recall him being accused of hiding from GV dar or exploiting or safeguarding secret weaknesses in the game.

[TyFoo]

One last thing.......If you do respond try and keep it under 250,000 words. Otherwise you will lose me at wah wah wah wah waaaaaa..... 
(That’s a Charlie Brown reference in case it gets lost in translation)..... 

[bustr]

So are you mano in the game? And do you have only the reading attention span of a twitter user......

To know the specifics you just presented, you are either him or spend time as his ride along buddy. As for your attention span for reading...that is your problem. And your assumption of a monolithic group of players who collectively know everything about GV's in this game, is the same as saying you speak for all the voters in your country becasue they all know the same things you do.

Interesting vitriolic reaction to sharing information.

The root of what I observed I believe comes from the phenomenon of a plane flying over you sitting under a tree, at a pre-determined distance from the leaves in your line of sight, it's icon disappears and then reappears on the other side as it leaves that space around the leaves. The Icon which we should be able to see starting at I think 600 or 800 for a shut down vehicle is suppressed by that function making it totally invisible to even another vehical at point blank range. I doubt even Hitech was aware of this from my expereince in the 2 years of the alpha\beta. I could have simply documented it as a bug like I would have during the alpha\beta.

I decided telling the community about it for those who have yet to mind meld with you and Mano would be a better service for everyone. We will probably be seeing much more gratuitous lobbing of rounds into out of the way suspicious clumps of bushes or small trees known to allow your vehicle to drive through them.

I allowed mano to keep shooting down my storch to investigate the phenomenon and determine the root of it since it appeared to me to be a game bug. I don't really care if you or mano walk on green jello and part tubs of beer with a wave of your main guns when it comes to GV's in AH3, I was trying to understand a potential bug I was witnessing and mano was helping me identify it's parameters.

You are the person who outed mano just now, I never gave the name of the tanker who I was scouting for, the vbase's number, the name of the map or, the name of the Gver we were looking for. That would have been unkind to him in my opinion.

[Rondar]

I don't see where Tyfoo ever mentioned a name of a gver. 

I allowed mano to keep shooting down my storch to investigate the phenomenon and determine the root of it since it appeared to me to be a game bug. I don't really care if you or mano walk on green jello and part tubs of beer with a wave of your main guns when it comes to GV's in AH3, I was trying to understand a potential bug I was witnessing and mano was helping me identify it's parameters.

You are the person who outed mano just now, I never gave the name of the tanker who I was scouting for, the vbase's number, the name of the map or, the name of the Gver we were looking for. That would have been unkind to him in my opinion.

But you did Bustr. 

[Mano]

It's an unintended consequence of the new system. Some players look for those and guard that secret from others and exploit it at every opportunity. I just report them as bugs as I find them. If you park under a tree and watch planes fly by, you will see there is a zone around the foliage that the plane's icon disappears as you view the plane up through the foliage. I suspect parking inside of the cluster of bushes did that in reverse to my storch and my tanker I was vectoring to the hidden GV's location.

It's probably one of those gray area loop holes in the game functions that fixing it may have more unintended consequences than it's worth. So I'm posting how it works as a heads up for everyone to know about a new cloaking wrinkle to the game. If you are getting shot and can't see the bad guy no matter what you do, lay a few rounds into bushes or clumps of small trees you know you can drive your tank through. Now I know how I killed two M3 in some bushes where I saw only one run into to hide from me. I just poured rounds from my IL2 into the bushes blind and got two kills on the return pass.

Why did you post here instead of the Aces High Bug Reports Forum?

Please take a good look at Rule number 4 and number 7.

Looks like you have been M-8’d again.

 

[bustr]

Lyric asked me to pull a psave from the location and to test the ground for a bug Hitech asked him to psave if he ran into it again.

I didn't experience the bug Lyric posted for Hitech, and the M8 I used which was the vehical type that shot me down from the bushes does not disappear totally at point blank behind it like the tanker last night. I hope I don't need to put Montis up as a custom arena and get a squadmate to duplicate the M8 hiding for me just to see if F3 and driving up to an M8 in another vehicle are rendered differently due to the object perspective. 

The tanker couldn't see the M8 and shot a round into the bushes just in case, which blew up the M8. I couldn't see the M8 in my storch close enough to be an easy single shot for an M8 each time I flew over that location. I kept flying over it to try and identify what appeared to be a bug becasue the M8 was invisible and only showed it's mussel flash and round tracer. That is all the tanker I was helping ever saw.

Here is the bush the M8 was hiding in and I'm in F3 as close as the tanker was last night when he fired into that bush just in case something was actually in it. I spent 10 minutes trying to make that M8 disappear, last night's M8 driver must known something about the M8 I don't. Or F3 view mode and being in a different vehicle are slightly different to how you are seeing things in that environment.

415055,527,281675,1.7,-16.4,84.9
montis
FOV = 73.5





These last two are just to cover the bases of the closest near by groups of bushes that could hide an M8. I couldn't make my M8 hide from view, some part always showed while the M2 on top is always exposed above that kind of bush. Last night not even that was visible.






 

[Max]

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[eddiek]

Just looking at the pics I am beginning to understand and notice things I just took for granted.
Top pic, look at that tree.....look at the base, the trunk, the leaves.  In real life, that tree would be ten, maybe fifteen feet tall. Scaling it against the GV, the trunk is like 3-4 feet in diameter.  The fork in the trunk looks like a relatively young tree, but the leaves are what?  2-3 feet long? 
In short, looking at the pics, our trees are out of scale to the GV's. We have giant trees and bushes, allowing hiding places.
Not sure about the second and third pics.....the trunks are THICK, looks like what....4-5 foot diameter trunks?

Now my question is, after viewing these pics.......how "to scale" are the trees and shrubs and bushes in the game?
That top tree.....seen trees like that all my life, none of which in real lift are as tall as in AH3.  Once they get as tall as we see in game, they are more spread out and have more forks and such.  Should be much smaller in size, and just about the same height as the GV in the pic.
Just my thoughts.......nothing is perfect, and HT and company have a limited set of objects to work with.....but now I am gonna look more closely when I am in game.

[molybdenum]

Why did you post here instead of the Aces High Bug Reports Forum?

Please take a good look at Rule number 4 and number 7.

Looks like you have been M-8’d again.

 

Just a guess, mano, but I'm thinking bustr posted here vs the bug forum because he expected an avalanche of happiness from GVers as opposed to truly wanting a fix to a game problem.

I mean, look at the title of the thread. "How To Hide From GV Dar"...it is so totally not that. I suspect it was a clumsy attempt to try to evoke support for GV invisibility from a GV community that simply wants a level playing field vs the A20 ilk. Yet another misdirection/straw man argument from someone who either has reading comprehension issues or is fundamentally dishonest when it comes to issues on which he has strong opinions.

[Mano]

Wait for it.

The 2500 word diatribe.