Author Topic: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days  (Read 8275 times)

Offline Puma44

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2018, 11:55:10 AM »
Here is an article I found interesting from last year.
As you know, Boeing doesn't make engines. Customers select which brand they want.

Or in the case of Southwest, some bean counter said "Hey! Let's take those old engines off the old airframes, refurbish them, and hang then on our newer fleet!"
Cutting Costs Costs Lives!

http://www.mro-network.com/maintenance-repair-overhaul/southwest-uses-737-retirements-drop-costs

Southwest Airlines is phasing out its Boeing 737 Classic aircraft by about 2017 and is finding ways to use engine inventory from that fleet to decrease its maintenance costs.

Related: AJW And Engineering Of Russia Set Up Stock Base

Mandy Gower, Southwest Airlines’ powerplant supply chain manager, told Aviation Week that the airline employs MTU Canada and BP Aerospace in Irvine, Calif., to tear down its CFMI CFM56-3s that power the Classics. The airline just took the next step and selected Avioserv San Diego to consign the material. Avioserv, a company that specializes in the supply and sale of serviceable engines, will be Southwest’s sole consignment partner to feed used serviceable material back to the airline to decrease CFM56-3 engine overhaul costs. Several parts on the -3, which power Southwest’s 737-300/-400/-500 aircraft, are interchangeable with the CFMI CFM56-7, the engine on the 737-700. Avioserv also will market the excess engine inventory.


My buddy who flies 737 sleds for a competing airlines just sent this as a reply to my email about this incident:

Yep, they've been having an inordinately high number of engine issues. Word on the street is when they have an issue that less catastrophic, rather than report it as per regulations, they simply change out the engine without reporting. 

GE and Boeing recommend a 3 minute warmup and cool down period.  Meaning 3 minutes from start to takeoff thrust and 3 minutes from high power setting of reverse (landing) to shutdown on taxi to gate.  At least in the past, SWA never seemed to follow that guideline.  It's pretty important for the life of the engine. 

Also, ever wonder why SWA doesn't go to Hawaii?  It's because Thank God the FAA mandates very strict and lengthy engine monitoring and proof of reliability programs before permitting it.  SWA has had some serious 'documentation' issues in the not so distant past. 

It's just their business model.  Anyway, it doesn't really surprise me all that much, just a horrific tragedy for the poor fatality and their family as well as the trauma to all the other pax.  Of course, I can't say too much, my company killed everyone on board trying to save money on tail jackscrew grease and inspections.


For the record, SW has submitting FAA paperwork to begin flying to Hawaii. Something tells me they're going to be under scrutiny.

Your “buddy” is trying to blow smoke up a dark place.  His lame accusations are just that.  SWA does have warm up and cool down time limit procedures in place and they are followed. He has NO CLUE about why SWA hasn’t gone to Hawaii.  It happens to be the most overserved airline destination on the planet.   In the past, Herb resisted it because there was a great deal more low hanging economical fruit elsewhere.  That strategy has continued with the current SWA CEO until recentlLy.

Perhaps the reason SWA has more engine incident occurrences is that each jet in the fleet on line averages 11-12 legs every day while your “buddy” is sitting on his tail skid in the airport Starbucks for a couple hours a day and thus his competing airline is not making money while his jet is parked at the terminal.  Tell you “buddy” to get the facts, and THEN make comparisons.  Until then, he needs to shut up and you’d be best served to quit spreading his false accusations.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 12:17:47 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2018, 12:11:57 PM »
Your gross generalization and judgement of a senior Alaska Airline pilot is immature and insulting.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2018, 12:15:38 PM »
Your gross generalization and judgement of a senior Alaska Airline pilot is immature and insulting.

Not as insulting as the original slander by that pilot, IMO.   Lots of hate-on for Southwest because they kicked butt for so many years.

SWA has a way better safety record than anyone in the US.  It’s not even close.  Since they started flying in 1971 this is the first (for-cause) fatality aboard one of their airplanes.   That’s an amazing achievement. 

 :salute Puma. 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 12:39:17 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2018, 12:21:59 PM »
Your gross generalization and judgement of a senior Alaska Airline pilot is immature and insulting.


Well, he’s obviously a senior Captain who knows everything, just ask him.  Your spreading of his lame accusations is the true immaturity and insult here.  I know exactly what I’m talking about.  He doesn’t.  And you certainly don’t.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 01:52:58 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline pembquist

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2018, 12:54:22 PM »
Ok ok enough chest beating, just tell me LUV, do I short or go long???




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Offline Puma44

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2018, 01:10:40 PM »
Nonstop



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2018, 02:26:54 PM »
Well, he’s obviously a senior Captain who knows everything, just ask him.  Your spreading of his lame accusations is the true immaturity and insult here.  I know exactly what I’m talking about.  He doesn’t.  And you certainly don’t.

I spent many hours on LUV jumpseats when I was a regional schlub.    Best training in CRM I ever got.  Those guys were all pros.   No exceptions.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2018, 02:27:26 PM »
Nonstop

He's probably referring to the stock!   LOL
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2018, 03:29:59 PM »
He's probably referring to the stock!   LOL

LOL!!!   :rofl. Just took a stab at what he might be asking.  LUV served me well after buying it for nearly 20 years.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 03:36:42 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2018, 05:41:45 PM »
Your gross generalization and judgement of a senior Alaska Airline pilot is immature and insulting.

As an Alaskan, I would choose SWA over Alaska Air if they offered service up there.

All airlines have some shady business. I see SWA having the least.
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline icepac

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2018, 05:43:18 PM »
I'm pretty sure the missing blade is the result of ingesting some of the cowling.

Offline Puma44

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2018, 06:07:16 PM »
I'm pretty sure the missing blade is the result of ingesting some of the cowling.

Or material failure of the blade.  Catastrophic regardless.



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Offline Karnak

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2018, 07:20:35 PM »
I'm pretty sure the missing blade is the result of ingesting some of the cowling.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/southwest-airlines-protested-airworthiness-directive-designed-to-prevent-engine-failures/

Quote
"The fan blade separated in two places," said NTSB Chairman Robert Sumwalt. "At the hub... there's a fatigue fracture where this #13 fan blade would come into that hub. It also fractured roughly halfway through it. But it appears the fatigue fracture was the initial event. We have the root part, but we don't have the outboard part. The crack was interior, so certainly not detectable from looking at it from the outside."
Looks like metal fatigue. 

CFM advised that inspections should be done in 12 months rather than 18 months after the 2016 incident, but Southwest objected to the faster pace of inspections.  Not good news for Southwest in any wrongful death suit.
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2018, 07:28:04 PM »
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/southwest-airlines-protested-airworthiness-directive-designed-to-prevent-engine-failures/
Looks like metal fatigue. 

CFM advised that inspections should be done in 12 months rather than 18 months after the 2016 incident, but Southwest objected to the faster pace of inspections.  Not good news for Southwest in any wrongful death suit.

Assuming that the fan blade failed in the same manner as the 2016 incident, how exactly does one inspect the fan blades for internal cracks, which cannot be seen from the outside?
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Online Oldman731

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Re: Lots of failures of front of engine/cowling on airliners these days
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2018, 08:43:25 PM »
Assuming that the fan blade failed in the same manner as the 2016 incident, how exactly does one inspect the fan blades for internal cracks, which cannot be seen from the outside?

I'd expect that fluoroscoping would show such things.

Time consuming, hence expensive for a big fleet.

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