Author Topic: Hills and Gullys Oh My.  (Read 8014 times)

Offline Puma44

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2018, 10:03:21 AM »
This dead horse is unrecognizable.  :headscratch:



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Offline 1ijac

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2018, 08:47:18 PM »
Looks great bustr.  There is so much work that goes into creating a terrain.  I myself and many others appreciate those who take the time and effort to create new and different terrains.  I just wish they would create a tile that had small mounds to hide behind when someone uses a ground vehicle.  Maybe mounds where trees are sparse.  Anyways, keep up the good work.

Cheers,  One-eye
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Offline bustr

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2018, 11:56:39 AM »
The micro terrain texturing I'm doing at all feilds will be enough. I realized after taking a few screen shots that seeing the far ground to near ground in game 3D visual relationship between hills and gullys didn't transfer with the 2D screen shot. It's like the real world where you walk up on the top of a hill and see the parking lot your car is in a mile away and you think your hike is over. Then you walk down into the low area between the next hill and can't see anything. The smallest hill I can make is 660ft across the base and I've accomplished that as a micro texture. I'm building 96 6 mile area tank maps to have every spawn area up to it's field textured with hills and gully's scaled to tanks.

I suppose Waffle could have made one tile for each tile set with pimples on the surface. I suspect just like the villages in the Eurotileset that I used for BowlMA, they would have been slope angle dependent. If I painted a village tile on too steep of a slope, the buildings would not be generated, only the trees and streets. And then the question would be how would I see placing pimples down on terrain I'm trying to scale to a theme? Or am I correct that most tank players in this game really want a super mario bros. tank world to play tank carnival after all is said and done?

Mounds where trees are sparse??

When you try to paint a few trees with the smallest brush, 660ft diameter, you are never sure of the outcome due to how the 1x1 mile source tile is oriented in the 1x1 mile grid area that you are trying to place one dot of tile paint on. The grid is oriented North and tiles are oriented North. So when you paint, your tile simply repeats itself oriented North across every 1x1 mile grid box or portion of your brush touches. Painting a 660ft dot is more like putting a cover over a 1x1 tile, then cutting a 660ft dot in that tile to let you see that position under the hole you cut.

By the way, 660ft is a very wide swath of terrain when you actually drive it in a tank. So anything smaller than 660ft, unless Waffle creates a tile that emulates sandpaper so anywhere I place a 660ft dot you have smaller mounds in some pattern I cannot change. Then you are talking tiny objects that have to be built like any other object such as revetments on vBases and made available for me to one at a time place them onto the terrain. Then you are entering into the realm of problems due to adding additional objects to the arena might impact localized FPS of large furballs. Or have issues of terrain functioning properly by placing objects too close to each other. 

I have a lot of limitations I have to work with, and around, to get my terrain to the state it is right now. You can see many gully's to duck into on your way to attack that port in these next 4 screen shots. How do tank hiding pimples work here in this geological theme unless like in all the films I've watched of our competitors. They arrange their towns and terrain features to make a real world looking\super mario funlands for tanks. You should read some of the professional blogs about that. Realism is highly over rated versus super mario fun driving around blind siding other vehicles. They all want to shoot each other in the back our push each other off cliffs to drown each other. WW2 is highly overrated when you want super mario hiding spots where they would never be geologically in the real world.





You can clearly see the 660ft limitation I have to work with in all these hills and gullys and so many places to hide.










Notice this gully is higher than the land to the left but lower than the land to the right and the airfield in the distance? You are driving 2miles up from a river bottom at 1ft elevation while the airfield is at 25ft. This is about 1mile in and there is a gully past the trees in the far ground and more micro hills. So where do you want the super mario none local theme pimples in this? There is a geological formation left by glaciers called moraines and my micro hill texturing is consistent with what is called a "ground moraine" even though I'm creating run off gull's on a watershed. In the Cascades you can find "mounds" left by a glacier called terminal moraines which are about 200ft long and 50ft tall. You could always ask Waffle to make "erratic's" as objects which are house sized boulders left by glaciers something like 75ft by 50ft.


bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2018, 12:21:53 PM »
Psssst..... TEXAS


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Offline bustr

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2018, 01:25:47 PM »
I've lived all over the world, parts of Pakistan look exactly like parts of Texas. Parts of the US west coast look like Japan. Only thing Texas dosen't have are rift valley's but, it does have some canyon land and looks like parts of Africa and the Mediterranean. Meh, must be a slow day for a bunch of bored curmudgeons.


Views from the spawns into a vBase and from that vBase back out to the spawns. Rolling hill and gully land running from the base of a mountain range down to a river valley. The vBase is on a 200ft area midway down the run. As I've been driving this to inspect the work using a panther, it's obvious the low profile of the turtle tank killers would be easy to miss laid up under some trees on a hill waiting for passing tanks. And that mask tool is getting reaaaallllyyyy irritating and adding time to tweaking the ground between spawns and feilds which takes a boat load of time making micro changes then driving the ground after each change. I have two feilds from this weekend I'm still balancing the hills and gully's to tree density. 660ft of open space is just not fair to a GVer so I have to play with dots of tile painting and gully micro sculpting to make it a bit more fair. Micro moraine pimples would do nothing to make it fair.















CMEye Mode half way between the spawns and the vBase.



bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2018, 04:07:49 PM »
Here in Texas we would have shot bin laden. Then dumped him in the Gulf Stream.

We are nothing like pakis.


That dang map is looking really good.
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2018, 07:57:21 PM »
Only thing Texas dosen't have are rift valley's but, it does have some canyon land and looks like parts of Africa and the Mediterranean. Meh, must be a slow day for a bunch of bored curmudgeons.

Got any active volcanoes or fiords?

Offline bustr

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2018, 12:48:52 PM »
I am limited to functions Hitech provides me. If he creates that kind of active object then I can put it in.

He could probably create a perpetual giant black regenerating smoke plume like from a burning radar tower. Wonder how badly it would eat FPS for some players 40 miles away without even seeing it? It would probably have similar restrictions that I had in creating weather systems for all the MA terrains. I can see it being some form of a cloud object. And then I have a restriction to setting up clouds in layers stacked above each other. You don't stack layers.  It's all for FPS reasons just like I have to keep a 40mile open buffer between cloud formations. Now if our arena was say 20milesx20mile versus 250milesx250miles, sure you can jam all sorts of objects into that for 32, maybe 60 players. Lots of things to balance with 625,000sq miles to not kill FPS and have hundreds of players running around. I just build terrains and leave those things to Hitech to balance. There are reasons for the limitations that start becoming obvious to our Melee arena once you actively produce terrains for it.

This terrain is pushing the limitations of the AH terrain editor to the max because I wanted to see what the maximum realism I could create as an illusion, limited by the 660ft minimum building block and paint brush. It's all an illusion since the only place anyone will see these micro hills and gully's along with other small features is somewhere inside of the 6 mile diameter around a field. While airplanes will always be looking at the macro terrain which is topographically profiled to scale, then medium textured for what a pilot will expect to see from the air. The only time a pilot will see micro texture is low over a field landing, taking off, or fighting on the deck around a field. Elsewhere on the terrain out side of those rings, a pilot will have a lot more to worry about fighting on the deck. Similar macro, medium, and micro for task groups.


These rings at every location have a dual purpose, the three mile radius distance I place vehical spawns and the 6mile diameter area I will micro terrain for tank combat and players on the ground to see that level of detail. Some world of tanks arenas are smaller than those rings with much more detail inside of them. The tools to do micro topography have always been in the terrain editor. And our competitors have always presented their product with that much detail. On this terrain there are about 66 rings with spawns to them while those black rings are airfields with no spawn but they still get some love becasue they can be captured and probably with an NOE.


bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2018, 01:12:01 PM »
Got any active volcanoes or fiords?

How about volvos and fords?

We have a lot of extinct volcanoes and we have canyons.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 01:14:30 PM by Shuffler »
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2018, 03:14:12 PM »
We have a lot of extinct volcanoes and we have canyons.

It's not the same you know, dead volcanoes, dry canyons... texas is such a let down - I thought it had everything. It's like picking up a hot girl only to find shes wearing padding in her bra.






Offline Vraciu

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2018, 04:11:52 PM »
It's not the same you know, dead volcanoes, dry canyons... texas is such a let down - I thought it had everything. It's like picking up a hot girl only to find shes wearing padding in her bra.

You must have been stuck in Laredo.

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Offline captain1ma

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2018, 06:45:03 PM »
Vraciu if you ever want to get into the terrains, its really easy if you stick to the default stuff. if I can do it, anyone can. me or easyscor could hook up with you and show you. all you need is arktic's  software and anyone can make a terrain. atleast a realistic one. bustrs terrains are designed for the main arena and are designed for a 3 way battles. mine are designed for 2 sided battles. anyway the offer is there. take it or leave it. your choice.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2018, 09:10:55 PM »
Vraciu if you ever want to get into the terrains, its really easy if you stick to the default stuff. if I can do it, anyone can. me or easyscor could hook up with you and show you. all you need is arktic's  software and anyone can make a terrain. atleast a realistic one. bustrs terrains are designed for the main arena and are designed for a 3 way battles. mine are designed for 2 sided battles. anyway the offer is there. take it or leave it. your choice.

I'd love to learn how to do this stuff.    :cheers:
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Offline bustr

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2018, 02:07:41 PM »
I keep talking about micro terrain in the 6 mile diameter area around an airfield for tank combat. You don't need L3DT or Artik's program to create it. And all told the example I'm showing here, less than 15 minutes. I'll still have to do localized painting for tank combat even though the whole terrain itself is completely macro painted for airplanes flying over. All the tools have always been in the terrain editor if anyone wanted to even bother about it. I'm doing it becasue half of Hitech's customers play this game to fight in tanks and his competitors do micro terrain for their tanks.

There is a tool called a Smooth Catmul that will take those horrible 100ft deep pot holes and turn them into gullys down that 1500ft slope into this river valley. And those way too tall hills will be reduced by half. Then I randomly added 20ft hills and free formed some shallow gully's to tweak the look. Nature is very random up close at a tank drivers perspective level. I will still have to micro terrain the area around the airfield on the other side of that river since it's there so I can place bridges over it as choke point to get at the airfield.

This stuff is really as simple as using your finger to draw gully's in sand at the beach.














Obviously this is way too sparse to not turn into a suicide spawn camp. I'll need to use the smallest brush and "dot spot" random patterns with a tree tile until I can balance hiding trees to seeing clearly around. All of those micro gully's and hills add many places to hide and play peekaboo for something as small as a tank. After I get this location tweaked so I can build it to test offline in a tank, I'll post back another screen shot of the final local area painting.


bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Hills and Gullys Oh My.
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2018, 04:05:26 PM »
I am limited to functions Hitech provides me. If he creates that kind of active object then I can put it in.

I'm just winding up the texans :)  I'm told it's a national pastime over there.