I love this game but no other game I play has me tabbing out to fill time in

[Vraciu]

It always surprises me..... well not really..... that threads like this , where suggestions and conversations about game issues seem to go ignored by the management until they just lose steam and fade away.

Funny how it always works out like that.

I see what you did there.   

[FESS67]

Other than new maps or altering the number of active fields to channel the fights I am not sure what HTC can do.

The tools to fight are there however too many choose not to engage.  With massive maps and fewer players the problem is exaggerated.

[1stpar3]

Other than new maps or altering the number of active fields to channel the fights I am not sure what HTC can do.

The tools to fight are there however too many choose not to engage.  With massive maps and fewer players the problem is exaggerated.

I agree,lots of ideas in this thread...but to what end? I dont have the answers..but its not really up to me, you know what I mean. I wonder if more folk would use a Dedicated Tank Town or Fighter Town(Instead of MPA and the Tank night special arenas) on maps if it was done INSIDE same arena? That IS one of the biggest reasons I dont go to Match Play when hit with High ENY and such I like to stay on top of what is going on. I LOVE bombing GVS  and the fights that can happen while low and looking for them. I for ONE would love it IF when nothing I really want to do is happening...I could spawn to A FIGHTER TOWN and do some dueling...but thats just me.Sort of like the PARTISIONED out sections in The Training Terrain? Other than Wirbs and bombing GVs...I dont get into the GV part of the game, so its hard to find the action I want sometimes, so I fully understand the same type of frustrations as you Fighter Jocks run into I just dont want to miss an opportunity in the MA by being in a totally different arena. I dont even know it that could be done without TOTALLY reworking a terrain, and that takes a lot of work, as seeing all of BUSTR's frustrations in creating maps. Like if they could make a FT or TT completely isolated from outside effects...NO eny restrictions inside boundaries...and no outside interlopers from surrounding Main Arena? I personally would LOVE to see that happen. Could even make a Training type zone inside the MA for quick answers on this or that. Its alot to expect from trainers to watch for the occational guy coming into the TA,and for new players..they can see the action on the map AND still get some crucial training..I know Morfiend doesnt mind, But it is a lot too ask of these guys! That way ,Morfiend and them could still participate in MA goings on,if they wanted to do so? Would be easy to land and spawn into at moments notice. Problem is...HOW HARD would this be to EVEN TEST OUT? Just trying to find solutions that work for all. Just cause I cant do MY THING...and with accessible LOCAL alternatives to wait till what I WANT happens...this way I can help those like me find fun on their terms as well. Just thinking out loud...ok out loud WITH Closed Captioning   

[Shuffler]

After reading these posts I am shocked that there are not 1000s more of these WWII fighter games on the market. Yall make it look so easy.

[FESS67]

I don’t think anyone is saying it is easy.  My OP was about being bored in game.

Let me give you a real life example.  It is now just after 6pm here.  I logged on at 5:20 and there were 25 players in game with very little air to air combat going on.

I downloaded WarThunder again and I was instantly in combat.  I did not set my controls up, just wanted to get a feel for activity.

Press play............get in a fight.

Is WT better than AH?    If it is a fight you are after, hell yeah!!

[nrshida]

Overall I've noticed a DO SOMETHING theme in this thread (or at least tell us when the doors will close). People are just trying to help and would even help do jobs for free if the word was give'd I dare say.
There'd be a dozen volunteers to redo the website for instance if HTC actually notices it still describes the Orange and Blue Main Arenas etc.

For instance there has to be an economical way to make webpage animations showing the plane models in 3D by now. They are fine models, almost free publicity.

People are just p!55ed because they feel an awesome hobby is going away. The most disturbing thing to me has been the lack of Rule #4s in this thread and no PNGs. That's not a good sign.

[Vraciu]

People are just p!55ed because they feel an awesome hobby is going away. The most disturbing thing to me has been the lack of Rule #4s in this thread and no PNGs. That's not a good sign.

Why?  This thread has been quite civil, frankly.

[FESS67]

Yeah a couple of posts have strayed close to the mark but again, my OP is not really about players or player behaviour as such so I have avoided those conversations.  Sure, they impact the game but for another thread I think.

My basic premise is that I have time to punch out of the game, read an article or two and then drop back into the game before there is any combat.

I wish for less time between fights.  Win or lose does not matter, repetition of action is the key IMO.

Maybe if there was less time between fights people would be more willing to commit to one.  Flying 15 mins to contact can make someone not keen to lose that 15 minute investment in 20 seconds so they are more cautious.  Less cautious means more running, means more frustration...blah blah.

I just feel my patience is running low.  I log in less and less because I get bored in game.

[Max]

Why?  This thread has been quite civil, frankly.

What Shida may be saying is that for all the ideas being put forth, many of them quite solid and doable, no one from HTC seems to be paying much attention. Then too, perhaps a course of redirection may be in the planning stages. IMHO, it would be heartening to know that Hitech & company at least acknowledge the concern on the part of the player base that are concerned for the future of AH3.

[b4o2s9s]

It always surprises me..... well not really..... that threads like this , where suggestions and conversations about game issues seem to go ignored by the management until they just lose steam and fade away.

Funny how it always works out like that.

TBH I can't ever recall HTC really jumping on threads like this. And there's been a LOT of stuff talked about. However, I do share your sentiment. A simple "Hey guys, we've seen some great suggestions in here. We are collecting these ideas and analyzing them so we can improve the game" would be promising and appreciated.

[Wiley]

I downloaded WarThunder again and I was instantly in combat.  I did not set my controls up, just wanted to get a feel for activity.

Press play............get in a fight.

The difference is, WT is a game.  You have 2 equal number sides with a defined goal to win or lose by, and a set amount of time to accomplish it (if I remember right, been a few years since I did WT).  You invest a small amount of time, you get a cookie.  You've got in-game defined advancement as you grind up your aircraft tiers and your abilities.

AH provides you with an arena that lets you do whatever you like within the physics and current situation of that arena.  You also have 2 fronts you need to overcome to win.  The only "guidance" you have is to win ze war and it doesn't lead you by the nose how to accomplish that.  This is why you get outliers like the early 49th looking for any crack in the way things work to get things done.  The game allows it, so you do it, because the only defined objective you have to focus on is to win ze war.

You don't gain new planes or accessories.  You get better at the game, or you don't depending on the person.  You don't get any tangible proof of "advancement" which in games these days just means you've put in time in the game.  Look at any of the grinding games.  It doesn't matter if you lose every match, you'll still progress just at a slower rate than someone who wins.

This is also something people expect.  Every other game shows you "advancing" even if you stay a positively terrible player.  I still get points toward boxes in PUBG even though I am appallingly bad at it.

For me personally in a flight sim, I want an arena to play in, not to be led around by the nose to accomplish the 20 minute objective that has been defined.  To me that's boring and repetitive.  I want an open world to be a part of and do what I feel like depending on what's going on in the arena.  This is an exceedingly rare desire these days.

The vast majority of gamers want a game with rewards and objectives and progression.  That is not here, and I think that's a lot of the reason why people log out after playing for a bit if they get past that first couple minutes.  It's not leading them by the nose to do stuff.

Unfortunately, HT's kind of between a rock and a hard place because a lot of the people who are here are here because they want the open world freedom to do what they like, but the overwhelming majority of potential new players as well as a number of the current players who are disgruntled, want the kind of instant action a game like WT has.

Plus, we have a flight model that hits the sweet spot between realism and arcade for a lot of us, but that's a distinction that isn't terribly important to the average gamer.  They're pretty much happy with different planes that handle differently and stall when you get too slow.  They aren't going to see much distinction between the way WT does it and the way things work here.

To make the game more palatable to a large number of people, they'd basically need to change the core gameplay that I like to something I like less.

As far as this thread and all the ideas in it, they've all been beaten into the dirt over the last few years.  I haven't noticed a thing in this thread that hasn't been suggested umpteen dozen times before.  That's likely why HTC hasn't bothered responding.  There's nothing new here, it's just another "airing of the grievances" thread that's saying the same things that have gone before.

A simple "Hey guys, we've seen some great suggestions in here. We are collecting these ideas and analyzing them so we can improve the game" would be promising and appreciated.

HT doesn't gladhand people with pap like that.  Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing depends on your point of view.  I personally kind of like the fact that if he doesn't like your idea, he doesn't validate your feelings by saing it's under consideration.  It really rubs a lot of people the wrong way though from time to time.

Wiley.

[b4o2s9s]

HT doesn't gladhand people with pap like that.  Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing depends on your point of view.  I personally kind of like the fact that if he doesn't like your idea, he doesn't validate your feelings by saing it's under consideration.  It really rubs a lot of people the wrong way though from time to time.

Oh I know, I've been around since.....2001 or 2002. I don't expect them to rub your back and tell you they are looking at it if they don't like it, but when they have a 28 page forum thread of people throwing around ideas to improve the game, they should probably realize it's time for some change. Numbers are WAY down, people want to help, but they aren't even acknowledging it. And that's frustrating.

All of the big game companies that stay successful have been interactive with the community, and ask the community for feedback to improve, and actually listen (within reason), using forums, community polls, etc. The ones that have bad community interaction and don't care what the community wants don't do very well. The very fact that many of these things have been suggested for years, and yet AH3 is the exact same thing AH1 and AH2 were, just with better airplane graphics and slightly better ground graphics, is troubling. If I was a new player looking for a game and saw that the devs don't seem to give 1% of a crap about community input, I'd move on, and I'm absolutely positive that's going on. Gamers these days EXPECT developer interaction with the community, especially when they are paying for a game. And HTC isn't dealing with 200,000 customers here, this is a small community of, what, 1,000? Shouldn't be real hard to figure out what the community wants to improve their game play.

I'm not saying that HTC should implement everything or change the actual game itself all the time, but the complete lack of change despite tons of community feedback over the years is just as bad. There should always be continuing quality of life improvements, GUI improvements, new player experience improvements (tutorials, not easy mode), website improvements, etc. There's nothing, and that's driving away current customers and potential new customers.

Also please god no instant action like WT......understand the allure, short on time, do a couple matches, go do something else, but that would ruin a sandbox.

[Wiley]

Oh I know, I've been around since.....2001 or 2002. I don't expect them to rub your back and tell you they are looking at it if they don't like it, but when they have a 28 page forum thread of people throwing around ideas to improve the game, they should probably realize it's time for some change. Numbers are WAY down, people want to help, but they aren't even acknowledging it. And that's frustrating.

Ah ok, so you predate me by a fair bit.  The thing is, they're still the same ideas over and over again.  HT probably figures he's rebutted the ideas so many times, it's not worth rebutting them again.  Whether he's right or wrong is a matter of opinion, but on most of the big ones, he's outlined his logic why they haven't been done repeatedly.

Personally if I were him, I'd have hired a lackey whose sole job is to monitor the forum and answer those repetitive questions with whatever the truth is, and monitor the forum for possible new interesting ideas.  They'd need to have a decent idea what he has in mind and where he's going so they could filter the ideas that might be worth exploring.  I know if I were HT, I'd NEVER come to these forums myself.

Shouldn't be real hard to figure out what the community wants to improve their game play.

I disagree.  Mainly because what a ton of people say they want, and what they actually want are very often two different things.  Just one example of many, plenty of people say they want a fight, but their behavior shows something completely different.  They want a fight, as long as it's fair in their mind.  If the other guys come in too high, or there are too many of them, they run or complain.  For some, if they meet resistance, they run or complain.

Either that or they don't want a multi-on-multi fight, they want a duel, with every other plane in the airspace staying out of their 1v1 so they can feel like Chuck Norris in one of his movies.  Yet if you suggest a dueling arena, they get huffy and don't want that for reasons I still cannot fathom.  I have a feeling it may be something to do with the fact that there's nobody watching it.

For me, I want the unpredictability.  Ideally an equalish fight with some squaddies with me but if more bandits show up, cool.  It's up to me to figure out how to deal with that.  If more friendlies show up behind me and the numbers swing the other way, well, that's what happened.

I'm not saying that HTC should implement everything or change the actual game itself all the time, but the complete lack of change despite tons of community feedback over the years is just as bad. There should always be continuing quality of life improvements, GUI improvements, new player experience improvements (tutorials, not easy mode), website improvements, etc. There's nothing, and that's driving away current customers and potential new customers.

Ingame tutorials is what I would be working on if I were him.  DCS's tutorial missions crossed with the way most FPS games do their tutorial missions really looks to me like the way to do it.  "Press <whatever is mapped> to start engine." The first time they get slow, "The warning buzzer means you are getting close to your stall speed." "If you get too slow, your plane will stall" the first time they stall.  Etc etc.

I agree, gamers look for something that's showing constant development and stuff being added.  I agree with you wholeheartedly about most of that, but fundamental gameplay IMO can't change terribly much without becoming something else entirely.  It's not a perfect analogy, but it would be kind of like adding a piece to chess.  It's not the same game anymore.

Also please god no instant action like WT......understand the allure, short on time, do a couple matches, go do something else, but that would ruin a sandbox.

The problem is, sandbox is just not nearly as popular as instant action, which at the end of the day is what I think is the root of most peoples' complaints are in here.  Planetside 2 numbers vs Counterstrike numbers.  Orders of magnitude difference.

Then you factor in that with the exception of a couple of freaks like Lazer and Ernst, this game is pretty much unplayable on mouse and keyboard and it's not great on a gamepad.  IMO you pretty much need a joystick which very few have as standard equipment.  It's just not something the majority are willing to invest in.

Wiley.

[b4o2s9s]

Whether he's right or wrong is a matter of opinion, but on most of the big ones, he's outlined his logic why they haven't been done repeatedly.

Well that logic to shoot things down wasn't put into action to improve things either. That's what is confusing to me, the world has changed around AH but nobody seems to have taken notice. Their logic has led to almost NO changes, which is just as unhealthy as implementing tons of changes. Hence the serious decline in numbers. When player numbers went from 1,000 to 500, there should have been a serious call to action. I do agree that they should have somebody specifically for monitoring the forums, taking down ideas and explaining why some ideas are just bad. At this point though, I'm not sure they WANT to save it. When it was 1,000 players, they could afford to sit back and say "it's working fine." When they got down to these numbers, with players screaming on the forums for them to do something to get the game back, changes should have been made. Years ago.

I disagree.  Mainly because what a ton of people say they want, and what they actually want are very often two different things.

What I meant was this is a small community. Those other games are going through the opinions of many thousands of players. In AH, the forum community is considerably smaller, and it's not nearly as tough to sift through the opinions and ideas, whether they are good or bad.

Ingame tutorials is what I would be working on if I were him.

Totally agree. Ultimately this thread is about improving the experience for newcomers so they are more inclined to stick around, and in-game tutorials would be a HUGE step. The youtube videos were a nice try, but with the UI the way it is, honestly I can't even hardly see them on my computer. Better just to have the game walk you through.

I agree, gamers look for something that's showing constant development and stuff being added.  I agree with you wholeheartedly about most of that, but fundamental gameplay IMO can't change terribly much without becoming something else entirely.  It's not a perfect analogy, but it would be kind of like adding a piece to chess.  It's not the same game anymore.

Agree there too, changing the fundamental gameplay would be an awful idea. There's just a ton of improvements that can be made to the UI, website, etc. that would make the game better for everyone, including the new players. Over the years, we've just dealt with it because we just enjoyed the game. At this point, we're just trying to save the game from going extinct.

The problem is, sandbox is just not nearly as popular as instant action, which at the end of the day is what I think is the root of most peoples' complaints are in here.  Planetside 2 numbers vs Counterstrike numbers.  Orders of magnitude difference.

Not totally on with you there. Open world, sandbox style games are very popular. Elder Scrolls Online, Eve Online, World of Warcraft, Microsoft Flight Simulator/P3D/Xplane, Elite Dangerous, The Forest (littler known but fun), there are literally tons of popular and somewhat popular open world, sandbox environment games out there that have huge followings. I mean I agree the quick match stuff like WoT, Rocket League, League of Legends, etc. are all HUGE games, but there's still a large market for sandbox games. What seems to be missing in AH that every other sandbox game has is things to do other than PVP. Ya, you can go bomb enemy strats or take out a town with a tank which is more PVE (I guess?). There's no advancement, no material production, no monetary system, nothing of the sort. Which I'm fine with, it's a great game for flat out PVP, but I can't think of any other "sandbox" game out there that ONLY has PVP. So honestly I can't even consider AH a sandbox, since the only thing to do is blow things up. And I mean really, that's how it should be, it's a game about WWII stuff killing each other.

Then you factor in that with the exception of a couple of freaks like Lazer and Ernst, this game is pretty much unplayable on mouse and keyboard and it's not great on a gamepad.  IMO you pretty much need a joystick which very few have as standard equipment.  It's just not something the majority are willing to invest in.

Most definitely, not even pretty much, you absolutely NEED a joystick. But let's be honest, you can buy a joystick for like $30, which is less than one meal at a restaurant. You can find them on craigslist for even cheaper. If someone doesn't want to spend $20-$30 on a joystick, why in the world are they looking at a flight simulator?  A flight "game", ok-ish. A game that prides itself on realistic flight dynamics? Nah, no way.

Like I say, I'm really not trying to trash on the game, I had so much fun in the past, and I'm having some fun now. I want the game to stay around, and I really hope that coming together as a community can get things done. HTC, if you need help, let some members help! Something has to be done, and REALLY soon!

[Wiley]

Not totally on with you there. Open world, sandbox style games are very popular. Elder Scrolls Online, Eve Online, World of Warcraft, Microsoft Flight Simulator/P3D/Xplane, Elite Dangerous, The Forest (littler known but fun), there are literally tons of popular and somewhat popular open world, sandbox environment games out there that have huge followings.

Which is exactly why I mentioned Planetside 2.  They aren't the same.  That I know of, Planetside 2 is the ONLY other game whose gameplay is comparable to this one.  It's very specific, it's open-world sandbox, real time combat, open-world PVP.  The other open world games, most of them aren't real time combat and are PvE with zones that have PvP, or have a very tiny set of open world PvP servers.  Elite Dangerous... kinda, but the universe is so large you can completely avoid other people, also there's a fair bit of stuff to do outside killing other players.  Star Citizen may wind up qualifying as well, but it's the same deal as E:D with the bunch of stuff you'll be able to do other than blow other people up.

Most definitely, not even pretty much, you absolutely NEED a joystick. But let's be honest, you can buy a joystick for like $30, which is less than one meal at a restaurant. You can find them on craigslist for even cheaper. If someone doesn't want to spend $20-$30 on a joystick, why in the world are they looking at a flight simulator?  A flight "game", ok-ish. A game that prides itself on realistic flight dynamics? Nah, no way.

Or, they can play Brand X with their mouse and keyboard for free.  Paying nothing is infinitely more attractive than paying anything.

Like I say, I'm really not trying to trash on the game, I had so much fun in the past, and I'm having some fun now. I want the game to stay around, and I really hope that coming together as a community can get things done. HTC, if you need help, let some members help! Something has to be done, and REALLY soon!

And I mean no animosity towards you, but posts like this have been around since I joined the game, saying almost exactly the same things every time.  As soon as numbers started to fall, all the stuff in this thread has been said, on pretty much a monthly or bi-monthly basis.

And every one after the first one was saying "something had to be done, and REALLY soon".   Again, no offense intended.

Wiley.