Volunteering

[kilo2]

 

[Dace]

I was turned down for the position...but good try I guess. Thanks those of you that wanted to jump in without any real idea where this was headed.

 

You've got to be kidding me?

I'd like to hear, publicly, from a CM, why in the world any willing CO volunteer would be turned down.

[TWCAxew]

You've got to be kidding me?

I'd like to hear, publicly, from a CM, why in the world any willing CO volunteer would be turned down.

Well I like vudu15 alot.

However i can see why they turned him down. Vudu said something publicly about one of the CMs I do not know what exactly because it already got edited by skuzzy when I read it. Also vudu opposes the way the scenarios are being lead.

I was looking forward to be a GL under vudu's command.

But i fully understand the decision.

DutchVII

[ROC]

There are those who want the scenario experience, all of it, not just a show up on game day.  We want time to plan, train, immerse ourselves in history.  That is as much a part of a scenario as flying on Saturday.
Unfortunately, this can't be done when the design is voted on and created 2 months before the event starts, details aren't thought through, balance isn't being accurately measured, and an arrogant post about No Changes will be made other than minor playability tweaks after the event is published even after back to back train wrecks occur.
When the frustration is expressed, it is dismissed as attacks instead of legitimate critiques.  When someone posts on a thread that they need to increase participation but ignore the things some want that will interest them, it seems pointless.  Then, to dismiss a CO candidate for not agreeing lockstep with the direction, one who was willing to step up IN SPITE OF THE ISSUES, was short sighted and yet one more reason that "some" are growing uninterested.
Cutting out Vudu had another impact.  It also lost me as his XO, SIM as his ATC and Dantoo as his tactician.
This will be another "scenario" I will sit out while waiting, less and less patiently, for an actual scenario to be proposed.  Swariam said a while back that "us" old guys are simply stuck in the past and have to accept that things change.  Yes, Yes they do.  Fine, I accept.  I'm out.

[Vudu15]

ROC said it well I was heated in my message that Skuzzy locked (and he was correct to do so) and was much more critical with details I'll not go into again. When these events have less and less people you would think that we'd be able to slow down and generate better events with more to offer and not less faster...Planes sets are a serious issue not understanding the non paper pros and cons to them hurts events right out of the gate. This last events should never had the plane set messed with because once it started there was no bringing it into balance. Also as you burn COs and GLs with messed up events that's one less and maybe even more if they brought friends that wont come back due to issues they saw and were unable to fix. I'm sure one possibility would be that I would ruin the event somehow...I would not do that even though it was a serious thought with the Tunisia event. Speaking of which I got to see serious bias as things unfolded that I didn't know were going to happen that benefited the opposing side which came in the form of an respawing target that the man who wrote the event just so happened to be the GL of the attack squadron who task it was to destroy said target. Which is one of the main reasons why the man writing these really shouldn't even be flying in them let alone leading groups. As there are far too many times where you won't get any help on rules at all because the person who should be resolving them is flying for a side.

[kilo2]

There are those who want the scenario experience, all of it, not just a show up on game day.  We want time to plan, train, immerse ourselves in history.  That is as much a part of a scenario as flying on Saturday.
Unfortunately, this can't be done when the design is voted on and created 2 months before the event starts, details aren't thought through, balance isn't being accurately measured, and an arrogant post about No Changes will be made other than minor playability tweaks after the event is published even after back to back train wrecks occur.
When the frustration is expressed, it is dismissed as attacks instead of legitimate critiques.  When someone posts on a thread that they need to increase participation but ignore the things some want that will interest them, it seems pointless.  Then, to dismiss a CO candidate for not agreeing lockstep with the direction, one who was willing to step up IN SPITE OF THE ISSUES, was short sighted and yet one more reason that "some" are growing uninterested.
Cutting out Vudu had another impact.  It also lost me as his XO, SIM as his ATC and Dantoo as his tactician.
This will be another "scenario" I will sit out while waiting, less and less patiently, for an actual scenario to be proposed.  Swariam said a while back that "us" old guys are simply stuck in the past and have to accept that things change.  Yes, Yes they do.  Fine, I accept.  I'm out.

I am I taking crazy pills - this post was made like 5 years ago but not by you 

[KCDitto]

OK,

These are my thoughts on this, take it for just what it is, just my thoughts.

I have not flown scenarios as long as some of you have. But I have not missed one since I started flying them. I have missed a FRAME or two.

I have GL'd CO'd XO'd and flown and always AXIS. Why AXIS is for another time, but yes always AXIS.

I have talked with a lot of guys over the years and have made a lot of friends and even met some in person.
I hear all the complaints and suggestions and name calling and how I could do it better crap from all of them.

The biggest compliant
You do not have enough time to build and develop and recruit and practice your team.....

REALLY?

We are ALL scenario players. We all have scenario experience. Many of us know what needs to get done. Many of us have an idea of how to plan and get orders out.

You are telling me that you cannot put a group of guys in an arena and tell them what the objective is, and watch it get done? It happens just about every Friday night.

Do you need 6 months to put a team together?
Do you need 6 months to plan and practice?

Really?

The core group of players that fly know how to do it. Maybe you have to do a fuel test or a time to target test....OK  6 months?

Scenarios used to be published as is, You flew in it as written. Or you don not fly. How many times did a group of guys fly around for 3 hours without seeing the enemy? It happened way to often, and you cannot deny that, because a few of you have joked with me about ordering particular guys to do just that!

We are trying to be more inclusive in both design and play ability. YES the Historical guys want the actual planes that were flying there. I get it.... Design it that way and no one shows up to fly ZEROs against your F4Us and F6Fs Just the way it is today...
Have and 8 to 1 advantage of P-51s flying over Luftwaffe... Yea I may show up for that, but not many others. Just the way reality is.

We are never going to make everyone happy with a design or plane set, but keep in mind, we are not trying to destroy scenarios or end the world....... of warcraft.


That leads me to the time factor

If the CM TEAM for scenarios schedules events in FEB  JUNE  OCTOBER and they are going to run consistently on that schedule, the core group of players is going to know what to do. Will we have walk-ons? I hope so. New players join a scenario and meet new people and learn there is more to this game then flying in the MA. That would be great.

3 times a year does not seem that out of the ball park for us or the players. I know thinking of this Saturday when it is going to be 105 outside, I would love to be flying in an event.

Say you want to skip this one? OK Skip it.

YOU KNOW there is one coming in FEB. Start with design request now, start building you team now start practicing NOW.... That is SEVEN MONTHS! Think you could get ready by then?

Lets not call each other name, lets not be rude and obnoxious...

This is just a game that we like to play. With all the other things going on in life not to mention other games out there, we can just have a dialog to make the events as good as we can with the low number of people still playing.

It IS going to happen every 3 months, like it or not. We as the scenario team talk every week and make little adjustments to things as we move forward. We try things, if it does not work we adjust it for the next time.

Guess what, in four months there is going to be another one.

Some of you have flown scenarios from wayyyyy back in the 90s back when there were 300 people on, that is just not the case today and I want to fly in more events then once or twice a year.

Thanks for your time and I hope to see you up

 

Ditto

[Vudu15]

So you had a good time flying with 25 people scraping to just try to fill slots to learn that most folks wont/cant run K4s, To then learn after a couple frames to not hit all in one go with all your fighters? I told y'all not to mess with the planes set I tried to warn you about the average pilot and the higher skill needed for most Axis rides but who am I? Some idiot who has no clue I guess. Your write ups aren't ready when they release, they need numerous revisions lots of them could be solved IF they were set up in advance not ad hoc after a vote. I was reading through the sides forums your learning from mistakes that with more folks and seasoned GLs you wouldn't have to make. You had to tell people to take GL positions because you didn't have enough people....if thats what you want to play then by all means continue. But what we have now seems to get quiet reluctance and outright animosity from the players you're supposed to be catering to. I don't expect some perfection we're human but dang could we try something else. I had 10~15 guys with 2 GLs bringing more people and the event hadn't even been decided yet. Then you say NO to a VOLUNTEER. Then have have fun. enjoy you and 10 guys and a losing battle with whatever these things are becoming. I may not agree with you but you're the only game in town and I wanted to at least be in charge of the burning ship seeing and knowing full well what I had in store for myself. but I digress If you had a good time in this last event then press on....

[ROC]

Kilo2 hush LOL    it was a good post 5 years ago!!  But even you have to admit, I put the time into balancing the battle.

[KCDitto]

When you post something that gets deleted by the boss, and then ask for a job, it typically does not work out well.

I actually did have a good time in frames 3 and 4. Would of been great to have more seasoned pilots, but I had to work with what I had. Sorry your 10 - 15 guys all stayed out because?

Scoring?
Plane set?
Leadership?
Summer?
something better to do?
They HATE Brooke?
Whatever?

I cannot fix that.

It was my first scenario as a CM, it had problems, OK  GOT IT

Now on to Pantelleria, let make it better. Does that mean everyone gets what they want? NO, it does not.

Want to fly in it   GREAT.  Would love to have a seasoned pilot with 10 - 15 friends.

Don't want to, sorry to hear, but maybe you will like the FEB 2019 one?

[asterix]

Lol how the events are being set up is the exact issue I have . But anyhow they are doing what they think best and I just believe that best has driven off a of good pool of COs XOs and GLs but who am I just a person who is playing this game right...anyway Im guessing ill just follow those others and let the scenarios truck on as they are.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

Maybe joining in and giving one`s input after event is the right way to go even if the event is a shoddy snapshot for someone. In this way feedback is given in public and in an organized way so it is easy to to get a picture of what people actually think instead of posting standalone rage quit threads etc. And one can fly in an environment that is still more historic than MA.

As a player and not an organizer I welcome more frequent events during that time frame. One thing I do not understand is the recruiting process. Registration opens... woohoo!!!, grab your ride or it may be taken by someone else. Registration takes so long, are people waiting to be recruited or something? I have flown some fast aircraft lately in Scenarios, planning to get more of an underdog aircraft for Pantelleria, unless these are grabbed before.

[Vudu15]

Maybe joining in and giving one`s input after event is the right way to go even if the event is a shoddy snapshot for someone. In this way feedback is given in public and in an organized way so it is easy to to get a picture of what people actually think instead of posting standalone rage quit threads etc. And one can fly in an environment that is still more historic than MA

"Still more historic than MA"......that's where this starts this last event wasn't right. Guppy35 put out a plane set that would have been dam cool. RN Hellcats and Corsairs escorting Mossies(stand ins for Beau fighters) out on low level strikes while a mixed bag of Mustang III(BPonys) and some Mustang IVs(Dponys) escorted Lancs to strike points in Norway. Being attacked by 109sG14s and some 110s with a few 190s I'm unsure of the variant that was operating in Northern Germany during that time frame.

This would have allowed a non standard mix up in late war a/c and given the Axis CO an easier to coordinate plane set as the bulk of forces are of the same type meaning climb times speeds and gun set ups are the same so that getting guys to the same place at the same time with enough ammo to do the job they are supposed to complete is possible. See the G14 has a 30mm or 20mm HUB gun then has the option to load gondolas or not allowing additional ammo to attack bombers. More ammo for less people but with the wild plane set you tossed that as an option. but there were other issues that made this one what it was.

As you can see now I'm talking about the last event to show where it was flawed and by seeing what was wrong with the last event we can make the next one better...but we are ready to move on to the next one. This one is over and with it any chance of learning from it to make a better event. At least that's what it looks like.

I have talked with a lot of guys over the years and have made a lot of friends and even met some in person.
I hear all the complaints and suggestions and name calling and how I could do it better crap from all of them.
and then what happened? I know you're working on one right now and IMO you're doing it the way it should be done each time

The biggest compliant
You do not have enough time to build and develop and recruit and practice your team.....
REALLY?
Yes, really. Do you feel you had enough time to make a team with this last one? Do you think you might of at least got dedicated GLs for your groups had you had some more time?

We are ALL scenario players. We all have scenario experience. Many of us know what needs to get done. Many of us have an idea of how to plan and get orders out.
But you aren't getting these folks in the positions they're needed in they're in the event sure but not in command positions, why would folks join command areas where it seems to be ad hoc the whole event feels ad hoc.

You are telling me that you cannot put a group of guys in an arena and tell them what the objective is, and watch it get done? It happens just about every Friday night. LOL, right if you think FSOs are the shining example then there is a serious problem with how these events are going. FSO is and should be it's own animal and should not be compared to actual scenarios save in passing.

Do you need 6 months to put a team together?
Do you need 6 months to plan and practice?
Really?
When the alternative is to get a CO who is begged to take the lead because your team think they have something good,take no advice, and limit the freedom of the man or woman who steps up to take a CO spot. Then when they do take the position they have had zero input to the writeup or the squadron leads or any other aspect of the event then are told, Oh Im sorry were too close to the event and there will be no changes. Then YES. Since yall are writing these from scratch as they are voted on instead of the moment the event vote is done the initial writeup should come out. Since you should have a writeup ready and waiting.

The core group of players that fly know how to do it. Maybe you have to do a fuel test or a time to target test....OK  6 months?
But are you getting them in command positions? Did you have enough ammo to bring down all the Lancs in this last one? and fuel test? No bud can the mission you assigned one team really be accomplished or does it just look good on paper.

Scenarios used to be published as is, You flew in it as written. Or you don not fly. How many times did a group of guys fly around for 3 hours without seeing the enemy? It happened way to often, and you cannot deny that, because a few of you have joked with me about ordering particular guys to do just that!
What's wrong with this? As you've said several times we're all old hats here and used to flying around a bit. Yes I'd love for it to be 3 hours of wild combat but sometimes it is about guarding that one side where no one comes from and you dont get to shoot so as a CO you mix it up next week and you never know you may be in the the thick of it next time. Why force the combat thats what youre doing in FSO sometimes and its just loads of fun.

We are trying to be more inclusive in both design and play ability. YES the Historical guys want the actual planes that were flying there. I get it.... Design it that way and no one shows up to fly ZEROs against your F4Us and F6Fs Just the way it is today...
You can do this without have terrible plane matchups this last event was a great chance for that
Have and 8 to 1 advantage of P-51s flying over Luftwaffe... Yea I may show up for that, but not many others. Just the way reality is.
Set your scoring right and you can, why do you close doors on your self?

We are never going to make everyone happy with a design or plane set, but keep in mind, we are not trying to destroy scenarios or end the world....... of warcraft.
Never said you were just think they could be better and should be and you guys are going for "inclusive" dude set the events take the COs off the tracks gain input from serious folks and work harder to develop better overall events, yes some will suck it'll seem like a good idea on paper and poor in execution but that's life and I understand this but at least talk to some other folks OUTSIDE the CM team. I know you are right now and I'll fly that event without event knowing what it is or where it is. Because I know it'll have been done the way it should be.


That leads me to the time factor

If the CM TEAM for scenarios schedules events in FEB  JUNE  OCTOBER and they are going to run consistently on that schedule, the core group of players is going to know what to do. Will we have walk-ons? I hope so. New players join a scenario and meet new people and learn there is more to this game then flying in the MA. That would be great. I think you burn folks out on these but thats your choice, I hope new folks join them and have a blast as they always have.

3 times a year does not seem that out of the ball park for us or the players. I know thinking of this Saturday when it is going to be 105 outside, I would love to be flying in an event. But you can see what's happening and you aren't getting COs stepping up like you used to that to me is the most important step. IF you had the writeup ready to go the moment the vote was over that would be great and give time to look and run numbers and test yours to make sure they are indeed correct and actually doable, but if you don't get a CO until 30 days before the event that's just rough. The regular joe doesn't know whats happening up top. and cant really affect it anyhow. If the writeup looks good you'll get a CO early, with the CO he/she will draw/recruit GLs these GL's will then draw/recruit players...currently you throw out a writeup folks jump in planes some folks request GL spots maybe they recruit maybe they dont then a few weeks before the event you finally get someone to drag in to run one side or the other and the event suffers because of it.

Say you want to skip this one? OK Skip it.
I'd rather not but am I willing to take off from work put in the time and effort for an event that you think is great and really isn't due to the way you think these events should be, in spite of that I was still going to show you that when you get a CO early enough and begin planning and more than one set of eyes on the writeup you begin to spot issues that need corrections or balance for one or the other side.

YOU KNOW there is one coming in FEB. Start with design request now, start building you team now start practicing NOW.... That is SEVEN MONTHS! Think you could get ready by then? Sure but where is the event? The problem you have is your write up is flawed since your planning team (if there is one) is just y'all. If you had the event and the write up then sure I could do what I needed I would have tons of time to check the numbers( but see you don't think anything is wrong with em or the writeups in general) oh sure you know theyll be issues but you start with bad foundations and the whole house is batched after that.

Lets not call each other name, lets not be rude and obnoxious...
I'm just an arnery character, I'm sorry but we see this differently and that won't change AND SHOULDN'T but you need other inputs to make the best event you can. We can agree to disagree but we can talk about it.

This is just a game that we like to play. With all the other things going on in life not to mention other games out there, we can just have a dialog to make the events as good as we can with the low number of people still playing.My whole point.

It IS going to happen every 3 months, like it or not. We as the scenario team talk every week and make little adjustments to things as we move forward. We try things, if it does not work we adjust it for the next time. You're the bosses nothing I can say can stop that, but I don't have to just sit here either.

Guess what, in four months there is going to be another one.again you're the boss but I don't have to like it, nor do I have to fly it which is my option as you've said before.

Some of you have flown scenarios from wayyyyy back in the 90s back when there were 300 people on, that is just not the case today and I want to fly in more events then once or twice a year.Then I think you should put more work in to make the event writeups ready from the day after the vote is concluded as to draw out COs early and them in turn draw out GLs and players and give teams time to plan and recruit players

Thanks for your time and I hope to see you upIt all depends, I do thank you for responding as that's more than I've gotten from your other two cats over the years.

 
Salute

Ditto

[TWCAxew]

Isn't that suppose  to be a private conversation between the two of you vudu?

Also i think your in the wrong.

DutchVII

[Vudu15]

No sir that was his quoted post from above, and if this is done through PM it goes no where. I think everyone should know how the system works and contribute to it or not depending on what they do or don't know.

On being right or wrong you me and the CM are entitled to our opinions, but you nor he see it my way. I don't want it exactly my way I just want you to see there is another way to do it. I don't know how much time you've had in scenarios but it's difficult to explain by text when, where and how these things effect the event as a whole. I'm not always right and neither is anyone else but together we could create better events than we have right now. Good enough is not good enough to me, and it shouldn't be for the CM team either. I'm not stupid enough to believe that we can get perfect scenarios, but I'm not dumb enough to believe that this is best we can get either.

[TWCAxew]

No sir that was his quoted post from above, and if this is done through PM it goes no where. I think everyone should know how the system works and contribute to it or not depending on what they do or don't know.

Sorry for that than. I miss interpreted the way the text was set-up.