End of Full Dar

[Vraciu]

your leaving out one of the most important variables this game used to offer...

Risk=reward

Time investment was a critical aspect to this game for years. It has been scaled back to such a degree that the risk of time investment is not worth the reward for a lot of elements this game used to offer. I know it's hard for a lot of bbs guys to wrap their mind on that. It's just a cold hard fact. The old argument "you players don't like to engage" is so ignorant it is silly. The only reason a player would avoid the action was due to the large time investment required to accomplish an objective. After many failed attempts players got smart and took the time to insure their investment was protected. The missions of entire squads attacking a target without flashing it was just a small element in a larger scale tactical war simulation.

You're missing the point yourself.  Time investment vs reward includes the ability to find a fight (and get kills eventually).   I'm actually a much better pilot now than I was even six months ago--in every area.  While anecdotal, my K/H have gone steadily down down down.   Why?   Because it is harder than ever to find bad guys.   During the radar experiment that trend reversed.   Why?  Because the time invested vs. reward ratio was dramatically improved.

Now we are back to chasing ghosts.   The Nits and the Bish are purse swinging on the other side of the map.   I wind up having to load up DTs and fly four or five sectors to attack bad guys and get ganged by BOTH sides.    During the radar test fights were easy to find, action was concentrated, and people were actually doing things--like bomber missions with escorts--we haven't seen in years.

I love this game as much as anyone, even though it frustrates the heck out of me.  It's a great game.   But even I, an AH3 addict, think about walking away sometimes.   A new player will never take the time to get to this point.   They're not going to understand it.  They're not going to find action.  They're not going to stay.    Hitech makes a good faith effort to see if this dynamic can be addressed and everyone loses their minds.

"Combat?  You want me to do combat in a combat game????  NOOOO-OOOOOOO!!!!!!"

GV dar is by far an absolute joke and always will be. A better alternative would have been an automated message scroll on country or 200 that told where 4 or more gv's were presently engaged with an opponent or attacking a base.

GV Sentry Bars are brilliant.  The whining about this is getting silly.     Tanks cannot operate with impunity.  They're loud.  They leave tracks.   People hear them and see them.    You guys want to be invisible like Wonder Woman's jet.   

[Electroman]

Wait a minute....

You mean to tell me:

- If I'm not a fighter jock looking for a fight / can't find a fight the game is doomed?
- If I am a GV'er I am avoiding fighting by hiding under the canopy of trees to avoid fights...even though I might be going after another GV that has spawned in...
- If I'm a bomber pilot avoiding radar rings I'm avoiding a fight...yet I'm trying to achieve a war effort goal of getting to a specific target...
- If we are doing a stealth mission to capture a base we are avoiding combat?

Please...don't be so insulting. Every player plays the game to his / her perspective of what they enjoy doing within the game. This is NOT a fighter sim...it is NOT a tank game...it is NOT a bombers only game...it's a WWII simulation "WAR GAME" and that includes ALL aspects of war. Who are any of you to define that a player is "avoiding combat"? Every player has a different way to play the game and get what they want out of it. If you are a fighter jock only then you need to respect that not everyone else is or wants to be. If you are a bomber you have to respect that you will get chased down by fighter jocks looking to take you out. If you are a GV'er and spawn in to a base you need to expect that you will get bomb****ed or sniped by another tank.

The game / maps have been setup to win a war. Not everyone has that mindset, but that is how the game has been setup from the beginning. If you are not of that mindset that's fine - then find what you enjoy within the game and if it is enough to keep you involved in the game then great. If not, then the game simply is not for you anymore. But don't sit here and try and tell people that they are playing the game wrong or avoiding combat. That's just plain wrong.

[Dundee]

Wait a minute....

You mean to tell me:

- If I'm not a fighter jock looking for a fight / can't find a fight the game is doomed?
- If I am a GV'er I am avoiding fighting by hiding under the canopy of trees to avoid fights...even though I might be going after another GV that has spawned in...
- If I'm a bomber pilot avoiding radar rings I'm avoiding a fight...yet I'm trying to achieve a war effort goal of getting to a specific target...
- If we are doing a stealth mission to capture a base we are avoiding combat?

Please...don't be so insulting. Every player plays the game to his / her perspective of what they enjoy doing within the game. This is NOT a fighter sim...it is NOT a tank game...it is NOT a bombers only game...it's a WWII simulation "WAR GAME" and that includes ALL aspects of war. Who are any of you to define that a player is "avoiding combat"? Every player has a different way to play the game and get what they want out of it. If you are a fighter jock only then you need to respect that not everyone else is or wants to be. If you are a bomber you have to respect that you will get chased down by fighter jocks looking to take you out. If you are a GV'er and spawn in to a base you need to expect that you will get bomb****ed or sniped by another tank.

The game / maps have been setup to win a war. Not everyone has that mindset, but that is how the game has been setup from the beginning. If you are not of that mindset that's fine - then find what you enjoy within the game and if it is enough to keep you involved in the game then great. If not, then the game simply is not for you anymore. But don't sit here and try and tell people that they are playing the game wrong or avoiding combat. That's just plain wrong.

All they care about now is preserving the Furball and what ever interferes with that gets tweaked to the point it's not fun anymore....I feel your pain my brother...sadly HiTech hasn't

[Vraciu]

All they care about now is preserving the Furball and what ever interferes with that gets tweaked to the point it's not fun anymore....I feel your pain my brother...sadly HiTech hasn't

This game is about the furball--or at least aerial *COMBAT*.  It didn't start as a tank game for people to hide and never do battle.  Aces *HIGH*. 

ACES.  Dogfighters.   BUFF hunters.

HIGH.  Flying, not on the ground or in a manned gun.

You've run off most of the furballers you detest so much.  How's that working for you?

[scott66]

This game is about the furball--or at least aerial *COMBAT*.  It didn't start as a tank game for people to hide and never do battle.  Aces *HIGH*. 

ACES.  Dogfighters.   BUFF hunters.

HIGH.  Flying, not on the ground or in a manned gun.

You've run off most of the furballers you detest so much.  How's that working for you?

oh V please tell me you didn't go to that Aces high not Aces low thing lol it's about War with objectives like taking base and winning the war .. Every tool in the game has its purpose and counter part... The furball is just a by product of the war.. However for some that's all they are interested in which is all up to them it's their quarter.. For me I like all parts of the game.. Except for bombers I suk at WF town

[Vraciu]

oh V please tell me you didn't go to that Aces high not Aces low thing lol

Okay, I won't. 

it's about War with objectives like taking base and winning the war .. Every tool in the game has its purpose and counter part

It's also a game requiring balance.   The balance has shifted WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over in the direction of the combat avoiders.  That's not good for the game, the players, or the business behind it all.

[scott66]

Okay, I won't. 

It's also a game requiring balance.   The balance has shifted WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over in the direction of the combat avoiders.  That's not good for the game, the players, or the business behind it all.

at that point we agree I have noticed more"extending" than normal I guess

[Dundee]

Okay, I won't. 

It's also a game requiring balance.   The balance has shifted WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over in the direction of the combat avoiders.  That's not good for the game, the players, or the business behind it all.

Odd..........but I have never killed you in a vehicle...so who was avoiding the ground combat.. And your right the game is out of balance, you fly guys cry when you have to stop fur balling  and look for GV's in the abundance of trees that were meant to slow GV's down. There used to be plenty of folks who did not do aerial combat that have left, just to feed your fun, we are going to have to agree to disagree on what is balanced.
 

[Vraciu]

Odd..........but I have never killed you in a vehicle...so who was avoiding the ground combat..

Ground combat is not why I am here.  No way.  No how. NEVER.  If this game gets to the point where all that is left are you GVers hiding in the trees I'll be gone.  GVs aren't even worth bombing.

I don't even know who you are, so obviously I've never seen you in a fighter.

And your right the game is out of balance, you fly guys cry when you have to stop fur balling  and look for GV's in the abundance of trees that were meant to slow GV's down. There used to be plenty of folks who did not do aerial combat that have left, just to feed your fun, we are going to have to agree to disagree on what is balanced.

I don't look for GVs any more.  I gave up on that long ago.  It is the biggest waste of time in the game at this point.

You guys like to play with yourselves.   (No, not that way.)   Knock yourselves out.   You're well on your way to getting your wish I guess...

[bustr]

This game in terms of subscriptions cannot survive forcing customers to do what they do not see as a good risk\reward for them selves. They will find another game like the average Joe customers did after NOE was severely curtailed nine years ago to "force" them to fight I suppose the small numbers of air combat only fans. For eight years up to 2009 Hitech allowed the game to evolve away from an "air combat only" game becasue that is not a growth industry for a simulation like this to stay solvent. As the last nine years have shown, hoards of air combat only freaks didn't fill in the numbers as the average Joe customers left the game. And many of the resident air combat only players left with the average Joes becasue none of them really want to spend all their time fighting other sharks. They wanted occasional run in's with them while harvesting the clueless Joes claiming ch200 bragging rights. When there were hundreds of skill less average Joes there was constant action and target rich environments.

Today our average Joes have been conditioned to be super avoiders, becasue doing anything that shows up on radar, ends up with a small hoard of people stomping them for their trouble. It amazes me we have a core membership of average Joes still paying Hitech for the privilege of getting their teeth kicked in. They don't want to be ACM nuts, they don't want to be panzer generals, and they don't want to do more than than spend a few hours pushing a button. But, they pay Hitech $14.95 to keep the doors open.

NOE (200ft minimum) up till nine years ago grew the population of average Joes becasue they could accomplish something meaningful to their level of skill and risk tolerance. Once NOE was taken away, look at how all the grand missions dried up for all those large missions squads. There were more average Joes than ACM fans logging in for the missions and they were growing this game with their numbers.

This game like it or not in the MA is capture the flag using toys land\sea\air. It evolved that way becasue of who was paying money to play it up to 2009. Today, the MA is mostly stalled field captures with bored customers getting picked by air combat greifers. How many average Joe customers really believe they will capture a field opposed to they are going to another location to fail? Give them back NOE and let the average paying customer feel good about himself and this game again. We have had the last 9 years of "what" to make them feel good about themselves for their $14.95? The resident gurus of ACM telling them constantly they suck, are cowards, and are killing this game by avoiding combat with real Aces High men? When they had NOE for 8 years until 2009, they were willing to take their chances every day becasue there was also the chance they would achieve their objective. Today, even flying in a group at 30k gets you killed by the ACM sharks. What is the point if that is all you can expect for your $14.95?

[Vraciu]

If what you are saying is true then these folks can save themselves a lot of money and trouble by bombing undefended targets in offline mode.

[The Fugitive]

I think at this point HTC is going to have to decide on what there game is going to be and then go with it. Stumbling on as it is now is slowly killing the game. If its going to be a combat game set it up where people are forced into combat. If it is going to be an arcade game with zero basis in WWII, then make it so.

When I started playing this game it was an open concept, but we had an arena full of like minded players. We all wanted to pretend to be in WWII. Now WWII is so far from most peoples minds in this game it isnt funny.

Decide what you want the game to be and get it over with. Enough flopping around in the middle of the road.

[Oldman731]

When I started playing this game it was an open concept, but we had an arena full of like minded players. We all wanted to pretend to be in WWII.

Heh.  Good observation.  Unintended consequences. 

In 2001 AH was a fighter game.  There were a few dedicated bomber people, but the focus was fighter v fighter combat, and most of us instinctively understood that and wanted that.  (GVs were something you did occasionally, just to see what it was like.)  When AW died and I moved here, I vividly remember thinking that the win-the-war concept might generate conduct that "the old crowd" would not approve.  And so it did.  Now, all these years later, AH is pretty close to what WWII Online was aiming at:  A WWII simulation, not emphasizing any one aspect thereof.  The old crowd thinned out, and the replacements were people more interested in other features of the game.  That's bound to discourage members of the old crowd, and we are nothing if not vociferous about it.  But we really shouldn't be complaining that the game has taken on a broader appeal.  In a way, it's a measure of HTC's foresight.

- oldman

[Vraciu]

Diversification has its perils.   If Whataburger decided to make pizzas or bicycles well...

History is littered with the carcasses of businesses that didn’t stick to their core expertise.

[mERv]

You're missing the point yourself.  Time investment vs reward includes the ability to find a fight (and get kills eventually).   I'm actually a much better pilot now than I was even six months ago--in every area.  While anecdotal, my K/H have gone steadily down down down.   Why?   Because it is harder than ever to find bad guys.   During the radar experiment that trend reversed.   Why?  Because the time invested vs. reward ratio was dramatically improved.

Now we are back to chasing ghosts.   The Nits and the Bish are purse swinging on the other side of the map.   I wind up having to load up DTs and fly four or five sectors to attack bad guys and get ganged by BOTH sides.    During the radar test fights were easy to find, action was concentrated, and people were actually doing things--like bomber missions with escorts--we haven't seen in years.

I love this game as much as anyone, even though it frustrates the heck out of me.  It's a great game.   But even I, an AH3 addict, think about walking away sometimes.   A new player will never take the time to get to this point.   They're not going to understand it.  They're not going to find action.  They're not going to stay.    Hitech makes a good faith effort to see if this dynamic can be addressed and everyone loses their minds.

"Combat?  You want me to do combat in a combat game????  NOOOO-OOOOOOO!!!!!!"


GV Sentry Bars are brilliant.  The whining about this is getting silly.     Tanks cannot operate with impunity.  They're loud.  They leave tracks.   People hear them and see them.    You guys want to be invisible like Wonder Woman's jet.

for someone who only flies ponies and rarely engaged when i played without full advantage you speak from a dark and very creepy corner....

You never ran troops,  you never resupped a base,  town or strats, I never saw you in buffs or a tank. 

Yet,  i always respected your ability ina fighter bird.  I havent missed the point,  you kust want a DA experience in the MA whenever you log in.  At the end of the day I dont play, you do.