Missions, PUGs, and new players

[Ciaphas]

oops hit the wrong button... my bad

[Ramesis]

Sadly it is today's society that is the issue. If anyone gets a gold star or a popsicle then all the others will want their gold star and popsicle or it is not fair.

 

+1


I posted a mission 2-3 days ago just to see if Istill remembered how to do it... only 1 other joined 

[Shuffler]

That's just it, basic instructions do not exist for this game. Nested instructions are old and dated, but that is being discussed in another thread. Back in the day when we all started gaming we were on the forefront of online gaming and it was expected, at the time, for the player to hunt down manuals, help via communities (official and non-official).

In today's game market it's perfectly reasonable for a new stick to log in to the game and expect that the "basic" information needed will be presented in a neat and orderly fashion. Nowadays, if I install a new game and it requires me to go to a website, youtube channel, blog etc.. just to learn how to start the game, I will uninstall it. It's a waste of my time to search the interwebs for what should be presented from the get go.

There you go, succinct and to the point.

A short time a go the powers that be were looking for folks to write training sections. It may have been for wiki.... not sure on that.

[Mister Fork]

+1


I posted a mission 2-3 days ago just to see if Istill remembered how to do it... only 1 other joined 

...who wants to do a mishun when you can't NOE properly at 65 bloody feet above the ground?
 

[Wiley]

There you go, succinct and to the point.

A short time a go the powers that be were looking for folks to write training sections. It may have been for wiki.... not sure on that.

In-game tutorial is what is needed.  Period.  Exclamation point.  #ingametutorial.  Ellipses.  Yellow highlight.  Bold.  Large font.

Wiley.

[duie]

That's just it, basic instructions do not exist for this game. Nested instructions are old and dated, but that is being discussed in another thread. Back in the day when we all started gaming we were on the forefront of online gaming and it was expected, at the time, for the player to hunt down manuals, help via communities (official and non-official).

In today's game market it's perfectly reasonable for a new stick to log in to the game and expect that the "basic" information needed will be presented in a neat and orderly fashion. Nowadays, if I install a new game and it requires me to go to a website, youtube channel, blog etc.. just to learn how to start the game, I will uninstall it. It's a waste of my time to search the interwebs for what should be presented from the get go.

so true

[Wiley]

...who wants to do a mishun when you can't NOE properly at 65 bloody feet above the ground?
 

Someone who wants their mishun to be something other than an undefended smash and grab?

Wiley.

[Shuffler]

In-game tutorial is what is needed.  Period.  Exclamation point.  #ingametutorial.  Ellipses.  Yellow highlight.  Bold.  Large font.

Wiley.

OK that is funny right there.....   

[bozon]

I posted a mission 2-3 days ago just to see if Istill remembered how to do it... only 1 other joined 

Exactly my point why pickup missions died - why would anyone join a mission in the current system?
The noobs will not even understand what you are talking about and what they need to do. The veterans like myself don't give a damn about your mission - I just look at the largest red bar and take off in that direction. THERE ARE NO INCENTIVES AND THE SYSTEM IS UNWELCOMING AND UNFRIENDLY.

Score and rewards for tour leaders are something that enough players will be interested in. This is why I suggested mission-leaders score and players scores that are gained only through the mission, and actual real rewards from HTC to the tour leaders.

The fact that a mission has been posted should be VERY clear to anyone potentially interested and the leader does not need to start shouting in country channel like a fishmonger. Joining must be stupid easy, incl. tuning to the proper channels. The target crowd are newer player and squad-less players. Squadrons too may be interested to be score leaders as a squadron, or run one of their members to the top mission-leader title by him posting and they playing his missions.

...who wants to do a mishun when you can't NOE properly at 65 bloody feet above the ground?
 

Humor. I read about it.

Sneak missions are bad. This is why I suggest that the mission leader calls out the target in planning stage and that a scramble mission is created. You can fake and fade and sneak on your way in, but the opponents know that you are coming. This is how we design scenarios and special events - the opposing forces are meant to collide, it is just a question of whether the attackers manage to sneak through & drop the bombs first and fight their way out, or fight their way in through the defenders.

...and forget about the 20 P-38 +goon missions of old. What we are talking about can be 4-5 players going to bomb the hangars in a field, or 2B17s+2P51s escorts to drop some bombs on a factory. Capture does not have to be a goal at all, so the leader does not have to recruit 15 players. Capture is just a goal that is worth a lot of points if you declare it in the mission beforehand - and achieve it.

[Ciaphas]

I would like to see a ground mission that follows a proper air mission that spans three or four targets (1 port, 1 AF, 1 VB  IE...). that would be fun and something the MA hasn't witnessed in a very long time.

[ccvi]

Sneak missions are bad. This is why I suggest that the mission leader calls out the target in planning stage and that a scramble mission is created.

Players who choose their own way can attack unannounced, and for missions intended to be filled with noobs there is guaranteed opposition? Practically, that reduces the chances of success to zero, unless the announcement is only available to other noobs. It's just a system that feeds noobs to what bustr calls sharks.

Running missions with human leaders is also a bad idea. People who like to communicate will do so with or without missions. Players who don't won't naturally gravitate towards such missions. Personal failure is guaranteed, which is embarrassing enough. Being watched is going to make it worse.

No forced opposition and fully automized it might work.

[ccvi]

PS: The purpose of PUGs is to connect players with the same plan, without having to rely on their own friends list. With a large number of players personal failure might not matter (you'll never meet again), which is not the case in here.

What's missing is quests. That allow to play at the players own pace. Where failure doesn't matter, only success is counted. Where the computer guides through the game. Something that provides a sense of a purpose.

[1stpar3]

...who wants to do a mishun when you can't NOE properly at 65 bloody feet above the ground?
 

To MY knowledge, NOE is exactly the same as in AH2. Once "LOCAL" radar is down, NOE is still 200 ft. Unless you meant that with the NEW--if in Icon range you show on map? Pretty sure that I read a statement from Hitech, that it doesnt effect you if NOE now? Personally, I believe this is a AH Urban legend...easy to understand why folk would think its different as alot of things have changed. I see Goons and other planes popping up to show dar, then disappearing from dar ALL THE TIME...just like in AH2

[bozon]

PS: The purpose of PUGs is to connect players with the same plan, without having to rely on their own friends list. With a large number of players personal failure might not matter (you'll never meet again), which is not the case in here.

What's missing is quests. That allow to play at the players own pace. Where failure doesn't matter, only success is counted. Where the computer guides through the game. Something that provides a sense of a purpose.

What you suggest is to turn AH into a single player experience, with human player maybe doing things in the background. AH will fail miserably at that since every game out there does it better.

I disagree with almost everything you wrote in the previous post.
You keep thinking of missions as a way to capture a base. You have to stop thinking that. A mission can have a different goal and getting into combat with opposing players is what make this game tick. The bases, the captures, the strats are all just means to make combat happen.

[AKKuya]

The best way to get action going is to make an effort to capture a large base.  Use the bomber icons on radar to let the other side what is happening.  Wait 5 minutes of them seeing a bad case of the measles over the base, then take out the radar.  One player in bombers take out a large amount of town buildings.  this will show the intent on the down time list for the airfield under attack.  Don't vulch lifting defenders in the beginning.  Let the fight escalate.

This can be done with a pick up mission for official organization, a shout out on country text, or a few players just getting the ball started for others to join in.

The underlining intent of this based on this topic thread would be for the experienced players to communicate with the new players vis country text to invite for either attack or defense depending on what country your on during this action.

Don't depend on HiTech to establish a learning system through tutorials in game, you tube videos by other players, or information posted in the forum.  If experienced players in the game want to keep the new arrivals playing, then it falls on the player base community in the main arena.