Author Topic: How to get us youngsters to play  (Read 13968 times)

Offline streakeagle

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1025
      • Streak Eagle - Stephen's Website
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #90 on: November 04, 2018, 10:52:47 AM »
If AH is going to build its numbers back up to the great levels they once were, Steam was the means to do that. But read the reviews/comments on Steam. Quite a few of the reviews are from long time and/or former Aces High players, which is the first bad sign since the goal was to attract new players. At least half of the reviews from the current/former players did not recommend the game to new players. Among the reviews from new players, the main gripes were:
1) Monthly subscription. No one wants to pay $180 per year for any game.
2) Low numbers of people flying.
3) Substandard graphics compared to games made in recent years.
4) Unable to understand or set up the controls.

I don't see how AH can recover from the current trend of dwindling numbers of an ever older community. No reasonable tweak to AH is going to appeal to modern gamers used to free to play and state of the art graphics with no patience for realistic combat such as having to start at a safe distance to takeoff, climb to a cruise/combat altitude, and transit to a target.

While I am a long time fan of Aces High, I have not been a steady subscriber and never played it very much in those years where I did subscribe. The fictional 3-way arena battle has never been very appealing to me in the first place. Despite loving the plane set and the overall game engine, I just don't have that much fun whenever I come online. If am lucky, 1 night in 5 I will have a night where I get into some dogfights that I actually enjoy and maybe even get a few kills despite flying the P-40C.

I would hate to see AH go away, but if it turns off both new and veteran players, it is going to be relegated to the same fate as Warbirds if it doesn't shut down completely.
i5(4690K) MAXIMUS VII HERO(32 Gb RAM) GTX1080(8 Gb RAM) Win10 Home (64-bit)
OUR MISSION: PROTECT THE FORCE, GET THE PICTURES, ...AND KILL MIGS!

Offline 100Coogn

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3930
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #91 on: November 04, 2018, 05:06:43 PM »
If AH is going to build its numbers back up to the great levels they once were, Steam was the means to do that. But read the reviews/comments on Steam. Quite a few of the reviews are from long time and/or former Aces High players, which is the first bad sign since the goal was to attract new players. At least half of the reviews from the current/former players did not recommend the game to new players. Among the reviews from new players, the main gripes were:
1) Monthly subscription. No one wants to pay $180 per year for any game.
2) Low numbers of people flying.
3) Substandard graphics compared to games made in recent years.
4) Unable to understand or set up the controls.

I don't see how AH can recover from the current trend of dwindling numbers of an ever older community. No reasonable tweak to AH is going to appeal to modern gamers used to free to play and state of the art graphics with no patience for realistic combat such as having to start at a safe distance to takeoff, climb to a cruise/combat altitude, and transit to a target.

While I am a long time fan of Aces High, I have not been a steady subscriber and never played it very much in those years where I did subscribe. The fictional 3-way arena battle has never been very appealing to me in the first place. Despite loving the plane set and the overall game engine, I just don't have that much fun whenever I come online. If am lucky, 1 night in 5 I will have a night where I get into some dogfights that I actually enjoy and maybe even get a few kills despite flying the P-40C.

I would hate to see AH go away, but if it turns off both new and veteran players, it is going to be relegated to the same fate as Warbirds if it doesn't shut down completely.

Well said Sir.   :salute

Coogan
Quote
From Wiley: If you're hitting them after they drop, that's not defense, that is revenge.
Game Id's:
AHIII: Coogan
RDR2: Coogan_Bear
MSFS-2020: Coogan Bear

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17417
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #92 on: November 04, 2018, 05:26:27 PM »
I love it when people that dont play the game talk about dwindling numbers as if they're in the know how.  do you guys know how many people were online on friday?  both in fso and ma?

I logged in yesterday at midday played for 12 hours straight.  had no problems finding fights, it was awesome. but what do I know, i only play almost everyday now that I am on disability.  maybe if I stop playing hitech will add me to the monthly email about how we have less and less players.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline 100Coogn

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3930
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #93 on: November 04, 2018, 05:35:01 PM »
I love it when people that dont play the game talk about dwindling numbers as if they're in the know how.  do you guys know how many people were online on friday?  both in fso and ma?

I logged in yesterday at midday played for 12 hours straight.  had no problems finding fights, it was awesome. but what do I know, i only play almost everyday now that I am on disability.  maybe if I stop playing hitech will add me to the monthly email about how we have less and less players.


semp

Who the hell are you talking about?  I've been here for over 10 years and streakeagle has been on & off for the past 18 years.
It's players like us that are "dwindeling"
Do some research, before jumping on that high-horse of yours.

Coogan
Quote
From Wiley: If you're hitting them after they drop, that's not defense, that is revenge.
Game Id's:
AHIII: Coogan
RDR2: Coogan_Bear
MSFS-2020: Coogan Bear

Offline caldera

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6469
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #94 on: November 04, 2018, 05:53:47 PM »
If AH is going to build its numbers back up to the great levels they once were, Steam was the means to do that. But read the reviews/comments on Steam. Quite a few of the reviews are from long time and/or former Aces High players, which is the first bad sign since the goal was to attract new players. At least half of the reviews from the current/former players did not recommend the game to new players. Among the reviews from new players, the main gripes were:
1) Monthly subscription. No one wants to pay $180 per year for any game.
2) Low numbers of people flying.
3) Substandard graphics compared to games made in recent years.
4) Unable to understand or set up the controls.

I don't see how AH can recover from the current trend of dwindling numbers of an ever older community. No reasonable tweak to AH is going to appeal to modern gamers used to free to play and state of the art graphics with no patience for realistic combat such as having to start at a safe distance to takeoff, climb to a cruise/combat altitude, and transit to a target.

While I am a long time fan of Aces High, I have not been a steady subscriber and never played it very much in those years where I did subscribe. The fictional 3-way arena battle has never been very appealing to me in the first place. Despite loving the plane set and the overall game engine, I just don't have that much fun whenever I come online. If am lucky, 1 night in 5 I will have a night where I get into some dogfights that I actually enjoy and maybe even get a few kills despite flying the P-40C.

I would hate to see AH go away, but if it turns off both new and veteran players, it is going to be relegated to the same fate as Warbirds if it doesn't shut down completely.


Yep.  That is a hard selling point for a new player.  Freemium games like WT look better and are way cheaper.  Even though WT sucks IMO, the entry fee is far more enticing for a novice.
Snuggie - voted "Sexiest Man Alive" for the entire Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere!

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18246
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #95 on: November 04, 2018, 06:01:18 PM »
I love it when people that dont play the game talk about dwindling numbers as if they're in the know how.  do you guys know how many people were online on friday?  both in fso and ma?

I logged in yesterday at midday played for 12 hours straight.  had no problems finding fights, it was awesome. but what do I know, i only play almost everyday now that I am on disability.  maybe if I stop playing hitech will add me to the monthly email about how we have less and less players.


semp

Just to play devils advocate here and to add context to your statement "had no problems finding fights" a quarter of your "kills" in the pony were GVs. Now, most "fighter" guys dont consider that "fights". Great you had fun. Im happy for ya, but that doesnt mean others were having fun all day. During the afternoon there were some good fights, but after supper you couldnt find a Knight to fight and the Bishops held a 3 to 1 numbers advantage on the other front. Personally I dont have fun fighting under an umbrella of high cons looking to just pick me while Im already fighting 1 or 2.

So coming in here and posting that you had a great day and lots of fights doesnt help answer the question, "How to get us youngsters to play". If the "youngsters" come in here looking for good air to air combat they are going to be pretty disappointed for the most part. I was logged in from 2 PM to about midnight but I only spent about half that time "playing" because the lack of fights.  I love this game, its the only one I play but I can be honest with what I see. Sure I can "find" things to do in the game when the fights dry up, but I have been here a long time and know whats available, but new players dont have those advantages. We need to look for things that will help new players to stay and play.


Yep.  That is a hard selling point for a new player.  Freemium games like WT look better and are way cheaper.  Even though WT sucks IMO, the entry fee is far more enticing for a novice.

Agreed, I think HTC should look into adding a "free" group of planes new players can play with in the MA. Giving them "free" arenas isnt going to hook these people by letting them fly alone in there own custom arena of MAYBE hook and fight some one in the DA. 

Offline streakeagle

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1025
      • Streak Eagle - Stephen's Website
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #96 on: November 04, 2018, 06:26:57 PM »
I log in when it is convenient for me to play, not when everyone else plays. That is usually about 10 pm EST or later on week nights after my family has gone to bed. I have never seen a night with more than about 150 players and usually is closer to 100 or less. I played when there were two arenas because the first one was at 100% with like 700 and the other was stuck with the leftovers like 300 to 500.  People used to complain about getting stuck in the 2nd arena with the sub-500 numbers.

I really don't mind an arena with 100 players if I can find a base where I can get in a few good hops before going to bed. I have a couple of nights where I was flying with the right guys and flying against the right guys. Non-stop action. Good fights. Couldn't wait to re-up for more fun. But that kind of night is at best 1 in 5 maybe 1 in 10. Whereas when a play DCS World single player, I enjoy every single minute I am flying because I don't have to count on having the right number of the right kind of people showing up.

So maybe you have fun every single night with the current subscription level and don't think the numbers are falling. But I have been playing the game a long time. Since I don't fly/win much, my rank is always close to last and let me tell you that my rank is moving up even though I am last... from 1500 to 1200 in the space of a couple of months. If that's not dwindling numbers, I don't know what is.

Now given that my son has a PC equal to mine and access to a HOTAS, he is the guy you want to try out and fall in love with the game. He played Aces High offline frequently between 3 and 5 years old. But despite being raised by an aviation nut, he has no use for flight sims in general, much less a very competitive one requiring hours of play to get up to the skill level required to survive in the main arena. He is almost 12 now and loves shooters like Star Wars Battlefront, Halo, and more recently Fortnite. If you can't get someone with access to the best hardware to even try the game, who are you going to get to play the game?

Apparently, people obsessed with being a fighter pilot are becoming fewer and fewer as a percentage of the market or even worse as an absolute number. I don't know why that is? DCS World is a pretty small niche game filled with the same 40-50 year old pilots as Aces High. Most of the players use Warthog HOTAS controllers and have a decent rig. But a pleasant surprise during a forum post about how old everyone is hit the average age of about 40 because for every guy in the 60 to 80 year old bracket (one that I am rapidly approaching as I will be 51 in Feb) there was some 16 to 20 year old who had access to a decent rig via their father and fell in love with combat flight sims. So maybe the market won't ever grow back to what it once was, but at least it may stabilize at a level to support continued game development.

If the majority of Aces High subscribers are people who have been playing on or before 2008 and that doesn't change very soon, then it is end of Aces High. No amount of marketing kept horse carriages selling well once cars took over the market. Perhaps there is nothing Hitech can do because younger generations simply don't want or like what he is selling.

Third Wire was a single developer with some contracted graphic artists. Its core game, the Strike Fighters/Wings Over XXX series became less and less profitable until it went into the red trying to update the terrain engine and sell expansion packs. Now Third Wire has free-to-play mobile games with ads and in-game purchases. If you played the PC games, you can see how much he ported over to the mobile market. You can also see how he dumbed down what was already a lite sim to appeal to a younger generation that doesn't appreciate realism... just decent graphics, lots of action and always winning no matter the odds. If Aces High is to have a future with a much larger number of subscribers, it may be as tablet game. However, that is not what I like/want, so I am left behind by companies that abandon realistic flight sims for arcade profits.

HTC needs to do what will keep their paychecks rolling in, not just try to please old fliers like me. I don't want to see Aces High change or go out of business. But it is going to be one or the other. I don't know how Warbirds has lingered on for so long. When I started flying in fall of 2000, Warbirds R2.77 was still up and Aces High was just getting its membership up. I liked Warbirds, but immediately recognized Aces High was Warbirds on steroids... much better at everything. Aces High no longer has that status. Their are competitors such as the latest IL-2:Battle Over xxx series that has great graphics, decent VR support, and aside from no support for massive arenas, better in almost every other way. Ironically, I fly IL-2:BoX much less frequently than Aces High. Maybe out of loyalty? Or preference for the much larger plane set? But most of my limited free time is spent flying DCS World. I like F-86s, MiG-15s, F-5Es, MiG-21s, F-15s, F/A-18s, MiG-29s, and Su-27s just as much as WW2 aircraft. I enjoy the DCS WW2 aircraft even more than Aces High, they just don't have all of the classics yet. Once it has P-38s, F4Us, F6Fs, A6Ms, etc., I will have little reason to come here any more other than just to show my support.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 06:59:10 PM by streakeagle »
i5(4690K) MAXIMUS VII HERO(32 Gb RAM) GTX1080(8 Gb RAM) Win10 Home (64-bit)
OUR MISSION: PROTECT THE FORCE, GET THE PICTURES, ...AND KILL MIGS!

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17417
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #97 on: November 04, 2018, 09:14:46 PM »
Who the hell are you talking about?  I've been here for over 10 years and streakeagle has been on & off for the past 18 years.
It's players like us that are "dwindeling"
Do some research, before jumping on that high-horse of yours.

Coogan

i just asked a simple question, how many players were on on friday?  I've been around for over 10 years.  last couple of years I dint play much but i kept my subscription.  been playing almost everyday for the last 2 months.

last Friday saw the highest number of people logged on.  so if numbers are dwindling, why do we see  more and more people logging in?

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18246
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #98 on: November 04, 2018, 09:19:38 PM »
i just asked a simple question, how many players were on on friday?  I've been around for over 10 years.  last couple of years I dint play much but i kept my subscription.  been playing almost everyday for the last 2 months.

last Friday saw the highest number of people logged on.  so if numbers are dwindling, why do we see  more and more people logging in?

semp

And what was that number? Ill bet it was less than 300 total. And once FSO was over more than half left.

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17417
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #99 on: November 04, 2018, 09:19:46 PM »
Just to play devils advocate here and to add context to your statement "had no problems finding fights" a quarter of your "kills" in the pony were GVs. Now, most "fighter" guys dont consider that "fights". Great you had fun. Im happy for ya, but that doesnt mean others were having fun all day. During the afternoon there were some good fights, but after supper you couldnt find a Knight to fight and the Bishops held a 3 to 1 numbers advantage on the other front. Personally I dont have fun fighting under an umbrella of high cons looking to just pick me while Im already fighting 1 or 2.

So coming in here and posting that you had a great day and lots of fights doesnt help answer the question, "How to get us youngsters to play". If the "youngsters" come in here looking for good air to air combat they are going to be pretty disappointed for the most part. I was logged in from 2 PM to about midnight but I only spent about half that time "playing" because the lack of fights.  I love this game, its the only one I play but I can be honest with what I see. Sure I can "find" things to do in the game when the fights dry up, but I have been here a long time and know whats available, but new players dont have those advantages. We need to look for things that will help new players to stay and play.

Agreed, I think HTC should look into adding a "free" group of planes new players can play with in the MA. Giving them "free" arenas isnt going to hook these people by letting them fly alone in there own custom arena of MAYBE hook and fight some one in the DA.

i got 3 maybe 4 gv kills yesterday.  but then again you dint have problem finding a fight, because i saw you flying in the same area as me.  if you dint find a fight then you really went out of your way to not find one.  and if you are gonna say well it was mostly picking and not real fights.  remember i have seen when you just flew around trying to pick people during a furball.

semp

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17417
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #100 on: November 04, 2018, 09:21:15 PM »
And what was that number? Ill bet it was less than 300 total. And once FSO was over more than half left.

a few less than 300, but remember a few months ago there were 160 to 180 players during fso.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18246
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #101 on: November 04, 2018, 09:37:54 PM »
i got 3 maybe 4 gv kills yesterday.  but then again you dint have problem finding a fight, because i saw you flying in the same area as me.  if you dint find a fight then you really went out of your way to not find one.  and if you are gonna say well it was mostly picking and not real fights.  remember i have seen when you just flew around trying to pick people during a furball.

semp

semp

LOL!!! ok I was in a GV on the center island when all you did was fly around looking for GVs to kill. As I said, afternoon was ok fights, but after supper it was all or nothing . Nothing from the Knights, and the usual horde from the bish. Numbers were awesome, 40+ bish and less than 20 each for Knights and rooks. Yup a stella night.

The point is that YOU may have had a great time, but it is not the same for the rest of us and for a newb looking for action..... LOL!!!! they are gone after after 10 minutes. Ask HTC.

So what can be done to entice the youngsters to play, and more importantly STAY.

a few less than 300, but remember a few months ago there were 160 to 180 players during fso.


semp

Thats the point, when 600 was a regular night and close to a 1000 was a good weekend. We need more players. You having a good time, isnt helping keep those that stop in and leave in minutes. Calling out others for not being able to find fights isnt going to help either. I spent more than an hour in a GV at that center island with you flying over head most of the time and while you werent, you were RTB or on the way in. Thats ten percent of the time you have flying just hanging out at the center island. Again, for those looking for air to air that is NOT AN OPTION.

While you can still find fun in the game as can I, its not enough for these new players. With out new players the game will continue to lose more players than it takes in. All is not well, what can be done to get the youngsters to play?

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9502
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #102 on: November 04, 2018, 09:47:09 PM »
and aside from no support for massive arenas, better in almost every other way.


I enjoy your posts, they're very well-written.  But many others have already left us with "The End is Near" messages.  We get that.  The point of this thread (so I thought) was to generate some ideas on how things might be improved.  If the answer is "there's no hope," that is probably off topic.

- oldman (not that I haven't made off-topic posts myself, you understand)

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17417
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #103 on: November 04, 2018, 09:48:38 PM »
doesn't matter how many where I'm before, but are the numbers dwindling or increasing.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline 1stpar3

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3734
Re: How to get us youngsters to play
« Reply #104 on: November 04, 2018, 10:13:10 PM »
 :salute
I log in when it is convenient for me to play, not when everyone else plays. That is usually about 10 pm EST or later on week nights after my family has gone to bed. I have never seen a night with more than about 150 players and usually is closer to 100 or less. I played when there were two arenas because the first one was at 100% with like 700 and the other was stuck with the leftovers like 300 to 500.  People used to complain about getting stuck in the 2nd arena with the sub-500 numbers.

I really don't mind an arena with 100 players if I can find a base where I can get in a few good hops before going to bed. I have a couple of nights where I was flying with the right guys and flying against the right guys. Non-stop action. Good fights. Couldn't wait to re-up for more fun. But that kind of night is at best 1 in 5 maybe 1 in 10. Whereas when a play DCS World single player, I enjoy every single minute I am flying because I don't have to count on having the right number of the right kind of people showing up.

So maybe you have fun every single night with the current subscription level and don't think the numbers are falling. But I have been playing the game a long time. Since I don't fly/win much, my rank is always close to last and let me tell you that my rank is moving up even though I am last... from 1500 to 1200 in the space of a couple of months. If that's not dwindling numbers, I don't know what is.

Now given that my son has a PC equal to mine and access to a HOTAS, he is the guy you want to try out and fall in love with the game. He played Aces High offline frequently between 3 and 5 years old. But despite being raised by an aviation nut, he has no use for flight sims in general, much less a very competitive one requiring hours of play to get up to the skill level required to survive in the main arena. He is almost 12 now and loves shooters like Star Wars Battlefront, Halo, and more recently Fortnite. If you can't get someone with access to the best hardware to even try the game, who are you going to get to play the game?

Apparently, people obsessed with being a fighter pilot are becoming fewer and fewer as a percentage of the market or even worse as an absolute number. I don't know why that is? DCS World is a pretty small niche game filled with the same 40-50 year old pilots as Aces High. Most of the players use Warthog HOTAS controllers and have a decent rig. But a pleasant surprise during a forum post about how old everyone is hit the average age of about 40 because for every guy in the 60 to 80 year old bracket (one that I am rapidly approaching as I will be 51 in Feb) there was some 16 to 20 year old who had access to a decent rig via their father and fell in love with combat flight sims. So maybe the market won't ever grow back to what it once was, but at least it may stabilize at a level to support continued game development.

If the majority of Aces High subscribers are people who have been playing on or before 2008 and that doesn't change very soon, then it is end of Aces High. No amount of marketing kept horse carriages selling well once cars took over the market. Perhaps there is nothing Hitech can do because younger generations simply don't want or like what he is selling.

Third Wire was a single developer with some contracted graphic artists. Its core game, the Strike Fighters/Wings Over XXX series became less and less profitable until it went into the red trying to update the terrain engine and sell expansion packs. Now Third Wire has free-to-play mobile games with ads and in-game purchases. If you played the PC games, you can see how much he ported over to the mobile market. You can also see how he dumbed down what was already a lite sim to appeal to a younger generation that doesn't appreciate realism... just decent graphics, lots of action and always winning no matter the odds. If Aces High is to have a future with a much larger number of subscribers, it may be as tablet game. However, that is not what I like/want, so I am left behind by companies that abandon realistic flight sims for arcade profits.

HTC needs to do what will keep their paychecks rolling in, not just try to please old fliers like me. I don't want to see Aces High change or go out of business. But it is going to be one or the other. I don't know how Warbirds has lingered on for so long. When I started flying in fall of 2000, Warbirds R2.77 was still up and Aces High was just getting its membership up. I liked Warbirds, but immediately recognized Aces High was Warbirds on steroids... much better at everything. Aces High no longer has that status. Their are competitors such as the latest IL-2:Battle Over xxx series that has great graphics, decent VR support, and aside from no support for massive arenas, better in almost every other way. Ironically, I fly IL-2:BoX much less frequently than Aces High. Maybe out of loyalty? Or preference for the much larger plane set? But most of my limited free time is spent flying DCS World. I like F-86s, MiG-15s, F-5Es, MiG-21s, F-15s, F/A-18s, MiG-29s, and Su-27s just as much as WW2 aircraft. I enjoy the DCS WW2 aircraft even more than Aces High, they just don't have all of the classics yet. Once it has P-38s, F4Us, F6Fs, A6Ms, etc., I will have little reason to come here any more other than just to show my support.
I know how you mean. If DCS had the MASSIVE p v p arena like AH does...Id probably never play AH. DCS for me is the FLYING  :uhoh ok LEARNING :x  Aces High is for the REST OF YOU GUYS...its the folk that show up that keep me coming back. That being said, my experiences in some of the DCS servers has been a bit of a NOT much fun either. So i am happy with having that option in AH, to interact with actual folk :salute
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain