God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots

[Puma44]

Thanks Puma, enjoyed your story !

Happy you enjoyed it! 

[Puma44]

Just ran across this picture of a taxiing T-33 with the plenum chambers doors suctioned open. Although only one is visible in the photo, there is another on the other side of the fuselage centerline.

.....and see the “One Star” emblem on dark background on the vertical fin?  At the Springs, anytime an O-6 or above flew, maintenance would remove the plain aluminum plate and replace it with the appropriate rank.  My 1st Lt bud and I took exception to that since we were always out cross country.  So, our crew chiefs presented us with a dark blue plate with a silver 1st Lt bar the next time we showed up for a cross country. 

[icepac]

It's a function of the speed of the plane, the shape of the ice, and the amount of reduction in inlet size.

There will be different effects from different designs but, not enough inlet will guarantee loss of ability to produce power.

That colgan plane that went down had big time inlet icing and, when they realized that they were stalling, firewalling the throttles caused the engines to make less power.    Some witnesses reported popping noises which likely means they had compressor stall from one or both as well.   

[Puma44]

It's a function of the speed of the plane, the shape of the ice, and the amount of reduction in inlet size.

There will be different effects from different designs but, not enough inlet will guarantee loss of ability to produce power.

That colgan plane that went down had big time inlet icing and, when they realized that they were stalling, firewalling the throttles caused the engines to make less power.    Some witnesses reported popping noises which likely means they had compressor stall from one or both as well.   

So, back to my PT-6 questions.

[icepac]

I picked PT6 out of the air but a substantially reduced inlet will "seem ok" until you ask for more power than the inlet can provide air.   

The plane doesn't matter unless it has "auxiliary inlets" as you mentioned that AREN'T iced over.

[morfiend]

I wonder if that was a Canadian style Heritage Flight Demo?  Or could it have been an airshow performer like Gregg Collier (sp) with one of his Tbirds?

I started on the Moosejaw story this morning.  Probably have it ready this weekend.

I don’t recall experiencing the Canuck Super Secret Snowballs.  Just knowing Canadian ingenuity and resilience, it’s probably best. 

  We have a flying T33 in the city I live in at the JET museum,we had an airshow a few weeks back so they took her up to show it off. I happen to see it flying on 3 different days.



   

[1stpar3]

Puma,

 I saw a T33 just a couple weeks ago,maybe a month now but it was in formation with a CF18...  As I said you had all the fun,but when in Moosejaw did we show you the super secret snowballs?

  You dont want to go to war against the Canuks when they break out those things you're done for!  You know sorta like breaking out a genie.....


  Cant wait to hear about Moosejaw.



   

"Super Secret Snow Balls"? I am betting they have a pretty pronounced shade of Yellow...No secret here. How else could one punk somebody in a snow ball fight!!! Well other than molding a rock into the snow ball

[Shuffler]

"Super Secret Snow Balls"? I am betting they have a pretty pronounced shade of Yellow...No secret here. How else could one punk somebody in a snow ball fight!!! Well other than molding a rock into the snow ball

Snowballs is simply the difference between a snowman and a snowoman.

[MiloMorai]

Making yellow snow is a good way to mess your pants. Damn thing shrikes when exposed to cold air and retracts from between your fingers into your pants.

[TyFoo]

That colgan plane that went down had big time inlet icing and, when they realized that they were stalling, firewalling the throttles caused the engines to make less power.    Some witnesses reported popping noises which likely means they had compressor stall from one or both as well.   

The NTSB published 46 findings in their report and not once did it mention a reduction in aircraft performance due to icing. Post accident analysis shows the aircraft responded, and was well within its operating envelope for the reported icing conditions it encountered which the NTSB considered minimal. The "Probable Cause" only mentions aircrew performance & company related issues associated with the accident and makes no mention of aircraft or engine performance as a contributing factor.
 

So, back to my PT-6 questions.

I am not aware of any PT-6s having an alternate source of inlet air because the design is so effective at handling all but severe icing conditions. That is not to say it doesn't exist as they are used in multiple aircraft applications. The PT-6  incorporates both an Axial flow as well as a single stage Centrifugal compressor in their basic design and I have never heard of it referred to as one design over the other.

[1stpar3]

Snowballs is simply the difference between a snowman and a snowoman.

[icepac]

The colgan guys "got behind" started to stall, and added power which ended up being less than rated power because of the icing.   

Couple this them performing a "zero altitude loss stall recovery" which relies on having excess power available and you end up with it mushing in with throttles firewalled.     They got into that stall with plenty of altitude to save it and rode it in with throttles firewalled and column back with witnesses hearing popping noises.

I knew one of the flight crew from when I worked for colgan and he had zero mechanical aptitude.

[Puma44]

  We have a flying T33 in the city I live in at the JET museum,we had an airshow a few weeks back so they took her up to show it off. I happen to see it flying on 3 different days.



   

It’s amazing how many TBirds are still flying.  A great testament to the Lockheed designers for a relatively simple systems configuration and robust airframe.

[MiloMorai]

It’s amazing how many TBirds are still flying.  A great testament to the Lockheed designers for a relatively simple systems configuration and robust airframe.

Yes considering it came from the P/F-80 which first flew 74 years ago in Jan 1944.