T34 85 time for perk upgrade

[FBKampfer]

This pretty much sums it up, my thoughts all along.

Why take a M4-76 when you can have a T-34-85 for 1-2 more perks?
Why take a Panther when the T-34-85 is just as fast and costs much less?

It's the best bang for the buck tank available. Fast, hard hitting, bouncy. It doesn't really have a downside.

Except that it's literally the third worst tank in the game beyond 1300m or so.

But that seems not to matter.

[Arlo]

Your data is irrelevant. If you don't understand the subject The topic is: T34 85 time for perk upgrade,
then post to a subject you understand.

 

Data is irrelevant when it comes to adjusting perk cost? C'mon, man. Really? It's suddenly starting sound like an 'I want what I want and who cares about the reasoning!' thing whenever you post. 

[FBKampfer]

Data is irrelevant when it comes to adjusting perk cost? C'mon, man. Really? It's suddenly starting sound like an 'I want what I want and who cares about the reasoning!' thing whenever you post. 

His "data" is only relevant for damage done upon penetration of the armor, which is almost the most useless Stat for tank combat, right ahead of range and how big the cup holders are.


More to the point though, it's also redundant since we have damage tables from HTC available to us, and with a bit of extrapolation we can infer what he wasted time plotting out on a table to a finer degree of precision than is useful.

His claim that the Zis-S-53 is a good gun is entirely incorrect given the conditionality of its merits and the generalized nature of the statements he tends to make.


Its just more off-the-mark pedantry, and mano is entirely correct to dismiss its usefulness out of hand.

[Arlo]

Its just more off-the-mark pedantry, and mano is entirely correct to dismiss its usefulness out of hand.

Out and out dismissal does not make for a claim that the argument is off topic entirely. You can say someone is wrong in their argument ... and why (sorta like you) but stomping one's feet and attempting to dis-invite another from the topic entirely simply because one doesn't like the manner in which it was approached is sophistry.

[FBKampfer]

Out and out dismissal does not make for a claim that the argument is off topic entirely. You can say someone is wrong in their argument ... and why (sorta like you) but stomping one's feet and attempting to dis-invite another from the topic entirely simply because one doesn't like the manner in which it was approached is sophistry.

While I don't disagree in principle, mano was nonetheless quite correct in saying that THE DATA THAT WAS GATHERED is irrelevant (as I explained why previously). But I don't think Mano was saying data in general is useless.


However Bustr, as per usual, has simply ignored any feedback and implied we were simply not reading his tables or that were calling him a liar.

I think the blatant refusal to make meaningful responses, while not warranting Mano's response, does exempt him from such harsh criticism.

[Vinkman]

This pretty much sums it up, my thoughts all along.

Why take a M4-76 when you can have a T-34-85 for 1-2 more perks?
Why take a Panther when the T-34-85 is just as fast and costs much less?

It's the best bang for the buck tank available. Fast, hard hitting, bouncy. It doesn't really have a downside.

Hmm I think you need to see the data. If everyone takes a T-34 it's kill ratio would be 1:1

Folks are super careful with Panthers, TigerII. so they're bound to have high kill ratios.

Stats are padded by spawn campers racking up big numbers against spawn breakers. No one tries to spawn break with perk tanks.

I've had thousands of panzer vs T-34 encounters, and it's super easy to kill a t-34 with one shot.  I feel the higher kill ratio might be based on situational usage and Driver skill.  I think the claims that its because the tank is uber are exaggerated. Perhaps Lusche  has a way to clarify.

If it's use case, perking it wont change game play, it will just move kills from T-34s to Panzers and Sherman. The same drivers will continue to win, and lose in the exact same way they do now. Only the name of the tank will be different. 

[bustr]

Inside of 2500 per my testing, the T34's armor configuration was it's single best attribute to survival. At those ranges 75mm and larger guns were pretty much single shot kills if the player understood the T34 armor. If you don't, until you are under 1500, you probably think the T34 is over modeled, over used, and needs a hefty perk added to it.

I love how all the barracks lawyers can quibble there is a there when the testing data is pure and raw. The T34 has an armor configuration advantage that makes it more than an easy kill while it's gun as long as you fight 2000 and closer is a one shot kill on most tanks. It is used more than other tanks giving it the perception of uber qualities.

Becasue I build MA terrains and am always asking questions of GVers and listening specifically for GV real time information feed back in the MA. Many of these complaints about the T34 boils down to the sloped armor doing what it was designed to do. Or at least Hitech's interpretation of the real world data presented in his version of the T34\85.

Our barracks lawyers as usual are trying to turn this into the equivalent of you can't present information about your head cold unless you are a doctor to make their opinions the only knowledge we can use as gospel. That for them is easier than building a tank gunnery range and testing all of this to produce a data set. Kind of lazy.....

[Vinkman]

Inside of 2500 per my testing, the T34's armor configuration was it's single best attribute to survival. At those ranges 75mm and larger guns were pretty much single shot kills if the player understood the T34 armor. If you don't, until you are under 1500, you probably think the T34 is over modeled, over used, and needs a hefty perk added to it.

I love how all the barracks lawyers can quibble there is a there when the testing data is pure and raw. The T34 has an armor configuration advantage that makes it more than an easy kill while it's gun as long as you fight 2000 and closer is a one shot kill on most tanks. It is used more than other tanks giving it the perception of uber qualities.

Becasue I build MA terrains and am always asking questions of GVers and listening specifically for GV real time information feed back in the MA. Many of these complaints about the T34 boils down to the sloped armor doing what it was designed to do. Or at least Hitech's interpretation of the real world data presented in his version of the T34\85.

Our barracks lawyers as usual are trying to turn this into the equivalent of you can't present information about your head cold unless you are a doctor to make their opinions the only knowledge we can use as gospel. That for them is easier than building a tank gunnery range and testing all of this to produce a data set. Kind of lazy.....

Bustr we know the tanks are modeled different. your data only confirms that.  Are folks racking up big kills in T-34s from 2500 yards?  USE CASE doesn;t take advantage of strengths and weaknesses. if they are all shooting at each other at a spawn or fighting on a base, or ambushing each other between spawn, they are shooting from 1000 yards +- 200.   at those ranges, everything can kill everything with one shot. so your "data" on armor thickness, and kills@ distance are most likely meaningless. 

[Arlo]

... everything can kill everything with one shot.

Un-perk all tanks.

[atlau]

Not sure why Bustrs data hijacked the basis of this thread. The T34 85 is the best balanced tank. Good speed, gun, turret rotation, reload time, and armor. No magnifying sight which is largely negated by the normal ah3 engagement ranges. It's almost as good as a Panther overall but with a much lower perk value. And much better overall than the m4 76 or firefly or jagpanzer which are perked similarly.

Doubling its perk cost to be more in between the m4 76 and panther seems like a no brainer.

Now you can go back to bickering about the range at which you can kill eachother with each tank armor/gun combo.

[Mano]

Not sure why Bustrs data hijacked the basis of this thread. The T34 85 is the best balanced tank. Good speed, gun, turret rotation, reload time, and armor. No magnifying sight which is largely negated by the normal ah3 engagement ranges. It's almost as good as a Panther overall but with a much lower perk value. And much better overall than the m4 76 or firefly or jagpanzer which are perked similarly.

Doubling its perk cost to be more in between the m4 76 and panther seems like a no brainer.

Now you can go back to bickering about the range at which you can kill eachother with each tank armor/gun combo.

Exactly!

 

[Vinkman]

Not sure why Bustrs data hijacked the basis of this thread. The T34 85 is the best balanced tank. Good speed, gun, turret rotation, reload time, and armor. No magnifying sight which is largely negated by the normal ah3 engagement ranges. It's almost as good as a Panther overall but with a much lower perk value. And much better overall than the m4 76 or firefly or jagpanzer which are perked similarly.

Doubling its perk cost to be more in between the m4 76 and panther seems like a no brainer.

Now you can go back to bickering about the range at which you can kill each other with each tank armor/gun combo.

Why is less T-34s a good thing?     Is this Jedi logic where we must bring balance to the Force? The Force was good until it was "Balanced" by turning Anakin into a Sith. Duh!

[pembquist]

The only thing the perk cost on the t34 the m18 and the m4 does is make you pick another tank when trying to up from a camped hanger or over camped spawn. V perks only effect the cat tanks and pricey bug tanks. I think if you want to restrain t34 usage you would have to put its price up to an obnoxious cost. Frankly I don’t know what you should do as the cost of some tanks makes them hanger queens, on the other hand concrete sitting seems less of a thing now and it is nice to see some players willing to risk as much as .01 percent of their perk wealth by coming out to play

[Shuffler]

I can own you all in a jeep.

[Mano]

Not sure why Bustrs data hijacked the basis of this thread. The T34 85 is the best balanced tank. Good speed, gun, turret rotation, reload time, and armor. No magnifying sight which is largely negated by the normal ah3 engagement ranges. It's almost as good as a Panther overall but with a much lower perk value. And much better overall than the m4 76 or firefly or jagpanzer which are perked similarly.

Doubling its perk cost to be more in between the m4 76 and panther seems like a no brainer.

Now you can go back to bickering about the range at which you can kill eachother with each tank armor/gun combo.

It is because he did not comprehend the original post made by BaronVonDeath. Anyone who disagrees with him is a Barracks Lawyer.
BaronVonDeath made a second post not long after his first post. It is possible he did not read either post and wanted to post his gunnery data anyway.