Time for a New Computer- Advice Appreciated

[230G]

  I've been running the same computer now for 7+ years and am ready to build or buy another one. It will be used for normal computer "stuff", Word processing (MS Word), balancing the checkbook (MS Excel), etc., but I'd like to optimize it for AH3.

  My current system has a fairly new  NVIDIA GeFORCE GTX 1050ti. If memory serves it has the PCI-2 (?) interface...or whatever they used 7 years ago.

 Knowing how expensive video cards are, would it be worth building my system around this graphics card and maybe the 8Gb of memory I already have or should I start from scratch? I've had absolutely no problems with my Windows 7 operating system, should I stick with it or move up to Windows 10? I'd appreciate recommendations for a tower, power supply, motherboard, processor, hard drive, etc.

 My budget is <$1000...preferably in the $700-$800 range.

 Thanks!

 35 Whelen

[DaddyAce]

I'm happy with 8GB Ram, I5-7600K, 650 Watt PSU, & 3GB GTX 1060.   The newer vid cards do not seem to draw much power.  My 1060 calls for a 400 Watt PSU.   My system runs AH3 fine in VR on an Oculus Rift.  I was mostly happy running  a 1440p monitor on this system with an i3 6100 cpu, prior to upgrading to my i5 7600K cpu.  If I recall correctly Brooke is happy running AH3 on a 1050.  In short, I think you should be able to build a AH3 capable system on far less than $1,000, especially using some of your current parts.  A big determinant of how much processing power you will need will be how high much resolution and refresh rate your will want in your monitor.

[Bizman]

If you're happy with the AH3 performance of the GTX 1050Ti, building around it is a good choice. The PCI-e version is mostly irrelevant as they're both ways compatible and in any case the 1050Ti is of the latest version.

Your RAM sticks may not be compatible with new motherboards, they use DDR4 nowadays and yours are most likely DDR3.

The basic rules of thumb for a good basic AH3 rig run on a 1080p 60 Hz monitor are as follows:

• Intel i5 @ 3 GHz or faster
• 8 GB RAM
• GTX 1050 or faster
• a reliable power supply, 500 - 750 W

Of course the AMD equivalents apply as well, but I'm not familiar with them.

If your current rig has 8 GB of RAM and a dual/quad core CPU @ 3 GHz+ you won't notice any difference in game speed unless your current system is full of crap slowing the performance.

[230G]

OK, I'm getting some idea.

 My current processor is a Core2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00Ghz 2.67Ghz (Socket 7 as I recall), RAM is DDR3 @ 8 GB, monitor is an old Acer America AL2223Wd.

The video card is the older PCI Express. Can I still get an up to date MB with a PCI Express slot that will use a fast processor?

Seems like I have a 600W power supply, but I wouldn't mind upgrading it.

 The current system is definitely lacking in performance. I have quite a few of the eye candy features turned off and I'd like to not have to worry about that.

 Thanks.

[Bizman]

You can use your video card and your power supply on whatever you choose. They should be both ways compatible. Based on Nvidia's site the video card supports natively PCIe 3.0 which is still the mainstream and won't cause a bottleneck in the foreseeable future.

The E8400 is basically sufficient for AH, it should have enough of what it takes to give the 1050Ti something to chew, but there's benefits in getting a quad core. In theory Windows should use the extra cores for background tasks, leaving two or three cores for AH only which should make the overall performance more fluid. New motherboards, processors and memory also have wider buses which allow for better performance even though the clock rates haven't improved that much.

Some more basic rules:

• There's nine generations of Intel i#-#### processors so far, the main difference between them being power consumption. Thus a 7th gen @ 3.5 GHz is as powerful as a 9th gen one of the same speed.
• There's three variations of the i# CPU's: i3, i5 and i7. i3 is much like your Core2Duo, i5 is cost effective for gamers and i7 is for high end multimedia like video editing. Very roughly.
• The generation of Intel i# processors is indicated by the first digit in the ####
• The i#-####K processors allow overclocking
• For overclocking you'd also need a suitable motherboard, not all chipsets allow it. If you're not going to, it's possible to save some money with a non-oc-able system.
• You basically can't see any difference with systems that have less than 20% difference in power. Try to find a balance between price and performance. Saving a tenner in a $300 CPU may not be worth it if you can get the flagship instead of something you'd be thinking as a bottleneck. Paying double the price for a 5% improvement is the other end of that line.
• Same applies for motherboards. "Gamer", "Pro" etc. marketing phrases don't necessarily add any oomph unless you really get your kicks from fancy lights and colours. If the bus speeds match there's no difference in performance.

[Denniss]

Posted this in another thread 10 days ago:

Prices from Newegg:
Ryzen 5 2600 boxed= 160$
Asrock B450M motherboard = 60$
GSkill Aegis 3000 RAM 2x8 = 125$
RX580 8G = 200$ (20$ less for RX570 8G)
Seasonic Focus Gold 450W = 60$
Crucial BX500 480GB SSD = 80$
That's about 700$ (+ Taxes) for the main/core components. + case and OS if not on hand
One could save 60$ by using just 2x4 or 1x8 RAM or further 20$ by going down to RX570 4G, there may be some good 400W PSU for 40-45$ available but couldn't find them at Newegg

take away the rx580 you won't need and you are at 500$ + taxes.
please specify the brand and model of you current power supply, 600W says nothing about its quality.
For speeding up older systems its essential to get a 250-500GB SSD for use as main (system) drive

[Bizman]

Denniss, in all friendliness "essential" isn't the word I'd use for an SSD. Agreed, they're fast but as the OP said, he's going to use the computer for AH, Word and Excel, neither of which gains any benefit of an SSD other than that they load faster. On my HDD it takes a full 3 seconds for the first menu of AH to load after clicking the icon, Word2003 took only 2 sec. Reducing numbers like that doesn't make an SSD essential, IMHO.

@230G, I just noticed your question about the OS. Windows 7 will be supported until Jan 2020, a little over a year. As you're going to abandon the old system and salvage some parts from it, you can install either 7 or 10 using the license code of your current system without any extra cost. The license is for one single computer so there shouldn't be any issues. The installing media for 10 is downloadable from Microsoft.

[Skuzzy]

SSD's are not essential.  They are optional.  For games, money put towards a better video card would be a better investment.

For Aces High III, there is virtually no benefit to using an SSD, unless your system is overloaded with background processes which are constantly hitting the storage device.

It is the expensive, lazy way to correct performance issues which can be alleviated with a little time invested in eliminating the causes of performance issues.

The only time an SSD is beneficial, in a properly configured system, is the first time something needs to be loaded, after a fresh power up.


Example:

The first time I load Aces High III. on my very slow 2.33Ghz E6550 Intel dual core system with 4GB of system RAM running Windows 7 Pro 64 bit takes 13 seconds to get to the main menu.

The second time I load it, it only takes 4 seconds.

After either load, there is little, to no benefit of having an SSD in a properly configured system.  The only time saved will be the first load.  The second load does not hit the storage device enough to make any difference.

Now, after logging into the game and selecting an arena.

The first time takes 11 seconds to get to the tower.  The second time takes 7 seconds to get to the tower.  Again, the only time you will save will be the first time as the second load is taking it from the Windows cache, which will reside in memory if there is room.

Note that my minimum 4GB system RAM still had the game loaded in the Windows memory cache, but my systems are properly configured and that makes all the difference.  Nothing magical about it.  Anyone can do it.  It just takes some time.

[230G]

 WOW! All this advice is very much appreciated!

 Deniss- my current power supply is a Rosewill Green Series 700W

 I will be replacing the hard drive for sure. My hard drive doesn't have to be enormous because I keep a separate drive for storing files, pics, videos, etc. So my main HD only runs programs. To that end, suggestions?

 Sounds like I need to get a MB that will work with my existing graphics card and if I'm understanding correctly, an Intel Quad Core would be a good idea? Maybe a 3.2Ghz i5? I don't care at all about overclocking.

 Basically, if my power supply and video card are OK, it sounds like I need a MB, processor and HD....and possibly a new tower though not necessary.

 Thanks again for all the good info.

 35Whelen

[Bizman]

If the information I've found is correct, Rosewill Green series is built by ATNG which means it's not the greatest on earth. For the system you're planning a 500W Seasonic would be powerful enough and provide good quality.

Something like i5-7500 or 7600 with a silent cooler like Arctic Freezer 12, a Gigabyte GA-Z270P-D3 for mobo and 2x4 GB of Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-2666 and a Seagate ST1000DM010 (yes, it's 1 TB but they're the cheapest) should be less than $450. Put $50 more for a SeaSonic SSR-550FM and pack them into your old case.

[Skuzzy]

Rosewill is not the most reliable power supply.  When they fail, they do so pretty spectacularly.  There are some pretty cheap components in there.

[230G]

Hmmm.....I just noticed that the Intel Core i5-7500 Kaby Lake works ONLY with Windows 10. That changes things a bit....

[Skuzzy]

Oh, you pretty much have to go with Windows 10 with a new system.  Microsoft/Intel made the arbitrary decision to stop supporting Windows 7/8/8.1 with new hardware.

I think the last generation of CPU you can get for Windows 7 is the Intel Skylake CPU's.  i7-6700 series, i5-6400, i5-6500, i5-6600, i3-6100, i3-6300, Pentium G4400, Pentium G4500, and the Celeron G3900 series.

Those would be the newest Intel CPU's Windows 7/8/8.1 would support.  Older ones would also work.

[230G]

Oh, you pretty much have to go with Windows 10 with a new system.  Microsoft/Intel made the arbitrary decision to stop supporting Windows 7/8/8.1 with new hardware.

I think the last generation of CPU you can get for Windows 7 is the Intel Skylake CPU's.  i7-6700 series, i5-6400, i5-6500, i5-6600, i3-6100, i3-6300, Pentium G4400, Pentium G4500, and the Celeron G3900 series.

Those would be the newest Intel CPU's Windows 7/8/8.1 would support.  Older ones would also work.

As was mentioned a bit ago-

@230G, I just noticed your question about the OS. Windows 7 will be supported until Jan 2020, a little over a year. As you're going to abandon the old system and salvage some parts from it, you can install either 7 or 10 using the license code of your current system without any extra cost. The license is for one single computer so there shouldn't be any issues. The installing media for 10 is downloadable from Microsoft. 

  I guess I naively thought I could use my Windows 7 install disc, then upgrade to Windows 10. That doesn't appear to be the case and it looks like I may have to spring for the Windows 10 OS.

 

[Bizman]

As was mentioned a bit ago-

  I guess I naively thought I could use my Windows 7 install disc, then upgrade to Windows 10. That doesn't appear to be the case and it looks like I may have to spring for the Windows 10 OS.

As I said earlier, you can use your existing Windows 7 license to install Windows 10. Just download it from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10 and follow the instructions for "Using the tool to create installation media---on a different PC."