Author Topic: New players are baby seals looking for some fun  (Read 3010 times)

Offline Easyscor

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New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« on: December 14, 2018, 01:19:30 PM »
I know this will meet some initial resistance but please bear with me. I'll explain and the changes can be temporary.

Premise: New players are nothing more then baby seals without skill. Engaging them in aerial combat too soon dose nothing but drive them out of the game. They need something fun while they gain skill.
A herd of unskilled baby seals have little chance of capturing a field even if only a few people up to defend. Yes, they will move to another side of the map and try again, rinse and repeat. But this has provided plenty of action and kills for semi-competent defenders in the game.

I understand, no one wants to fight a massive hoard that suddenly flashes a base but I suggest this can be limited by reducing the number of players allowed on the 100-199 and mission channels the same way the squad channel is limited to 32 iirc. (Not sure what changes were brought to the tower based vox, if any.)

Then raise the dar bar altitude back to 200' to allow the old noe attacks the new players would find fun even if their feelings of success are false.

Yes, it holds the possibility for abuse, but the cries against the tactic as eliminating any chance of a fight are balanced against no chance for a good fight if player numbers continue to stagnate.


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Offline CptTrips

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2018, 01:57:42 PM »
+1.  You can adjust the warning range a little if needed to get up to defend.

I never understood the logic that bases changing hands was a bad thing.  That is activity.  The worse problem is everything grinding to a stalemate.

The harder you make a base to take, the larger the hoard they will simply bring to do it.

If you make it possible for an 8 man team to take a base, you will have a lot more 8 man teams scattered around the map giving it a try.  And since they will be heavy, you can stop them with 4 planes.  Now you got a bunch of little fights popping up all over the map.

Would you rather have that, or a 50 plane cloud-of-death moving from field to field?

:salute,
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Offline bustr

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2018, 02:38:27 PM »
I agree with 200ft and what it would do for NOE and activity generation by groups. And the downsides are real and we know what they are or can be from experience. Might even be entertaining if the MA daily randomized the minimum between 65ft or 200ft so no one would know what to expect each day. The current radar where being in proximity to an enemy plane shows enemy dots would be a strong modifier to some of the old time game play issues from 200ft minimum NOE.

I'm not sure if you have seen recently, several times I've posited from observing my three terrain building experiments. That with our current numbers, 5x5 terrains would work in the MA on a limited basis. Say a Titanic Tuesday event format. I don't think as the next stage in our lower numbers, resorting full time to 5x5 should be considered. But, as a once a week throw 170 players into the equivalent of a 10x10 with 270-300 players for 24hours. NOE at 200ft would spice up activity on a 5x5. Maybe even turn off GVDAR for that 24 hours and let the shadow war play out that GVers love so much. As much as players argue for consistency in their rabid attacks on change in the MA. When Hitech suddenly throws in an all free perk rides day or, Claw day, for that 24hours people have fun becasue of the change and it being something different. A 5x5, 200ft NOE and no GVDAR once a week would not have enough time to allow familiarity to generate the old social problems. One day would be just long enough for players to get in each others faces all day due to the close proximity while never reaching social problem critical mass 5x5 would turn into as the standard terrain size.

When I gradually condensed field distances down so 85% of feilds were 19 miles apart, condensing produced activity by removing 6 additional miles\time between combat locations. A 5x5 would be the closest to turning the MA into an instant action venue without resorting to air spawns or queued up matches while maintaining capture the flag. I'm not trying to get Hitech to create a whole new MA game. Back in the bad old days I remember a few times the CT\AvA on small terrains hosted large numbers from the MA for a few hours and those tiny venues with numbers rocked. It helped that everyone was playing by that arena's rules so the crowds were a blast. A one day occurrence of a 5x5 would replace everyone being on their best behavior like the AvA demands.
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2018, 02:41:45 PM »
one thing about new guys is you cant tell who is a new guy and who is an experienced guy coming back under a new id.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Online DmonSlyr

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2018, 02:58:07 PM »
For new players it's not about dying over and over again. It's about flying 10 minutes to a base to Jabo a field and getting drilled by AAA so badly on the first and second pass that they die instantly or their plane is unflyable. Or they fly 10 minutes to fight only to die very quckily. Its not dying quickly that is the problem, it's the time it takes to die quickly.

I die over and over again in BF4 as a noob, but it doesnt take me 10 minutes to find an enemy.   

When I started the game, the MA was way to big for me and took too long for action. That's when I found H2H and it really helped me learn the game being able to fight people quickly. I wanted to know how to be good. So I took the time to learn how to be good. Most people in AH don't take the time. Being a newb in the MA is very hard because its harder to learn how to fight as you have to wait 10 minutes getting back to the fight to go again.

I love the MA now, but until some big changes to match play happen, new players simply don't have a place where they can just fool around and get into quick fights.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 03:01:02 PM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2018, 03:04:35 PM »
what changes to match play you think would be good for the game?


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2018, 03:48:38 PM »
This is why I changed my ID to shuffler.
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Offline bustr

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2018, 03:58:04 PM »
Time to target and turn around time overall was my primary concern on my three MA terrains. The sense of every activity being long on getting there, and too short of duration to have any satisfaction for $14.95, is one I understood personally after all these years. Without resorting to wishing to Hitech that he fundamentally change the MA. My terrains were an experiment in solving the issue with the rules Hitech limited me by. From that, I believe a 5x5 terrain once a week will enhance the customer experience with our current numbers.
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline flippz

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2018, 09:51:24 PM »
I think new players should have a insignia attached to there name for a few weeks that can only be seen by country men, then we can help and give better advise. 

Offline Shuffler

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2018, 10:45:29 PM »
I think new players should have a insignia attached to there name for a few weeks that can only be seen by country men, then we can help and give better advise.

Some would probably send them in as scouts to draw the enemy down.  :bhead
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Online DmonSlyr

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2018, 11:49:43 PM »
what changes to match play you think would be good for the game?


semp

Dump it.

1 arena as a fighter bowl in a 4 square radius with air spawns. All green, no teams. No bases. Easy

1 arena as the "DA/match play which uses the map we have now, but allows to pick teams and choose your dueling partner. And choose where you want to  fight on the map. keep the tournament setup in there also. Easy

Having "match play" and "free fight" and "dueling" in the same arena is just too confusing and the current set up is too complicated. The map is too big for "free fight" and   It's just not working becuase it doesn't point people to the action like a simple fighter bowl would.


Time to target and turn around time overall was my primary concern on my three MA terrains. The sense of every activity being long on getting there, and too short of duration to have any satisfaction for $14.95, is one I understood personally after all these years. Without resorting to wishing to Hitech that he fundamentally change the MA. My terrains were an experiment in solving the issue with the rules Hitech limited me by. From that, I believe a 5x5 terrain once a week will enhance the customer experience with our current numbers.

The map that was on tonight. (One of the newer ones) is a great example of a fun smaller map with bases that aren't too far but keeps the fights in compact areas on the map which makes the fights feel bigger. Had a lot of fun in the 30 minutes I got to play. Definitely keep the emphasis on this kind of layout.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 11:51:45 PM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2018, 06:55:39 AM »
But you also misses the fact that players might want to do the other stuff as well. I know that you want a better version of WT but a lot of players doesnt. I miss the very large maps with all strats at the city where you could fight your way in with the heavy bombers. It is fun to furball, but its also fun to do a strategic bombing run or sneak a goon in. If you remove all those aspects then its not AH anymore.
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Offline popeye

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2018, 09:19:04 AM »
I think new players should have a insignia attached to there name for a few weeks that can only be seen by country men, then we can help and give better advise.

Yes.

Also, maybe new players could have access to a "trainer" plane (Spit9?) with a modified damage model that would make it very hard to shoot down.  The trainer would have a special icon visible to friendlies and enemies.  This would let the new player experience the MA without being immediately shot down, and hopefully get him hooked on the game.  To minimize griefing by returning vets, the new player would lose access to the trainer after 3 kills (in any plane).
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2018, 10:23:02 AM »
Yes.

Also, maybe new players could have access to a "trainer" plane (Spit9?) with a modified damage model that would make it very hard to shoot down.  The trainer would have a special icon visible to friendlies and enemies.  This would let the new player experience the MA without being immediately shot down, and hopefully get him hooked on the game.  To minimize griefing by returning vets, the new player would lose access to the trainer after 3 kills (in any plane).

That would lead to the newbie being gang banged as soon as he/she entered any contested area. Each and everyone of the older players would go for the free kill..
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Online DmonSlyr

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Re: New players are baby seals looking for some fun
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2018, 12:18:08 PM »
Y'all remember the days of "NewUs" lol   :D
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