Author Topic: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.  (Read 34710 times)

Offline pembquist

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1928
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #180 on: January 10, 2019, 01:24:32 AM »

This might be some of the real reason many leave inside of their first 20 minutes in our game these days.

Exactly! People want to play a video game.

AH is sort of like a simulation of hunting with rocks, those people over at WT want to play a game about hunting with rocks so they play baseball.
Pies not kicks.

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8079
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #181 on: January 10, 2019, 10:22:44 AM »
The more hardcore realists go to DCS.  The more game oriented people go to WT and like such as.

The people seemingly closest to our niche I think are IL2 players.  From what I've seen they seem to think engine management, no icons, eye candy, and paying once for the game are more attractive than this game.  Larger maps and capacity for more people just don't seem to be as important to them.

People keep talking as though there's this giant untapped horde of people that would play this game if only they advertised enough to reach them.  I sincerely don't think that's the case.  I think IL2 has grabbed most of the people who would be inclined to play this game.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline ccvi

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2074
      • http://www.carl-eike-hofmeister.de/
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #182 on: January 10, 2019, 05:35:36 PM »
Larger maps and capacity for more people just don't seem to be as important to them.

Capacity only matters when it is used. When actual player numbers online are lower than what the server of a boxed game can manage, capacity loses its relevance.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17921
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #183 on: January 10, 2019, 05:57:45 PM »
Seems like WOP is the test.

I doubt that. AH may be more of a test bed for War Online. Game style is the main difference. It is set up to be a fast dirty game. "Grind" your way to more planes and such. Generate action for Dueling contest to win real prizes and such. None of which would be put into the "Sandbox" style game that is AH.

War Online is a separate entity to be used as a separate income to pay off investors in the new game. 

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #184 on: January 10, 2019, 06:27:59 PM »
I doubt that. AH may be more of a test bed for War Online. Game style is the main difference. It is set up to be a fast dirty game. "Grind" your way to more planes and such. Generate action for Dueling contest to win real prizes and such. None of which would be put into the "Sandbox" style game that is AH.

War Online is a separate entity to be used as a separate income to pay off investors in the new game.

I wasn't talking about the gameplay.

I was suggesting WOP might end up as a test bed for HTC to prove if feature-limited F2P accounts and paid upgrade to premium access is the key to attract a new generation of players. If it attracts good numbers and holds them, and if there is a sufficient percentage of conversion to premium to show profitability, it would add much weight to the argument that AHIII would benefit from a planeset limited F2P account access with upgrade path. 

But much better to try it out on a separate title, that is reasonably easy to put together from mostly existing code and art assets, than to roll the dice like that on their main bread and butter game.  WOP might provide an elegant proof for an evidence based business decision.



 

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17921
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #185 on: January 10, 2019, 06:56:23 PM »
I wasn't talking about the gameplay.

I was suggesting WOP might end up as a test bed for HTC to prove if feature-limited F2P accounts and paid upgrade to premium access is the key to attract a new generation of players. If it attracts good numbers and holds them, and if there is a sufficient percentage of conversion to premium to show profitability, it would add much weight to the argument that AHIII would benefit from a planeset limited F2P account access with upgrade path. 

But much better to try it out on a separate title, that is reasonably easy to put together from mostly existing code and art assets, than to roll the dice like that on their main bread and butter game.  WOP might provide an elegant proof for an evidence based business decision.

I hope your right but I really doubt it. I dont see the F2P stuff in War Online transferring over to a totally different game like AH. "war cash", buying skins, dueling/competition for cash I just dont see it crossing over.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #186 on: January 10, 2019, 07:49:53 PM »
I hope your right but I really doubt it. I dont see the F2P stuff in War Online transferring over to a totally different game like AH. "war cash", buying skins, dueling/competition for cash I just dont see it crossing over.

I could see F2P accounts grinding away getting kills and bombing stuff to earn war cash in AHIII and then using it to purchase the use of a premium plane until they die in it, the way subscribers use perks fpr perk planes.  That will keep them playing and occasionally getting a little taste.  Of course they can have that pony whenever they want if they subscribe.  Or they maybe can earn/buy some war cash to purchase a slot in a scenario. 


Mainly, the question is if F2P turns out the be the cheapest advertising HTC could buy, and if a sufficient number convert to make it worth it.  Compared to buying national media time, the bandwidth cost of floating a percentage of F2P accounts is probably trivial.  Especially with the secondary benefits they provide by providing targets, numbers, something to shoot at other than Yak 3's.   ;)




Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17921
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #187 on: January 10, 2019, 09:00:51 PM »
I could see F2P accounts grinding away getting kills and bombing stuff to earn war cash in AHIII and then using it to purchase the use of a premium plane until they die in it, the way subscribers use perks fpr perk planes.  That will keep them playing and occasionally getting a little taste.  Of course they can have that pony whenever they want if they subscribe.  Or they maybe can earn/buy some war cash to purchase a slot in a scenario. 


Mainly, the question is if F2P turns out the be the cheapest advertising HTC could buy, and if a sufficient number convert to make it worth it.  Compared to buying national media time, the bandwidth cost of floating a percentage of F2P accounts is probably trivial.  Especially with the secondary benefits they provide by providing targets, numbers, something to shoot at other than Yak 3's.   ;)


LOL!!! NEVER! Hitech could have done that ten years ago, or anytime since then when all these other games were going with that full F2P, buy to get ahead stuff.

No I think if that happened you'd see most of the "oldtimers"..... those that have kept the game solvent these past 5-10 years gone in weeks. Hitech has to come up with "the next big thing" in pay/subscriptions to make AH worth the time and effort players need to put into it to become competitive. Thats why I think the F2P with a few planes and tanks/or a full subscription is a good hybrid payment setup. It give the new players a chance to get going, over a few months if thats what it takes, for them to get comfortable and say, "ya, I really need a mustang" and subscribe.

HTC has never been big on advertising. They have tried it a number of times, a number of ways and they have never seen a good return on it. I think its due to the game its self. The game is not welcoming to new players. It has a steep learning curve and very little help forced on new players. Be it videos or training tutorials BEFORE you can play or what ever, players come into this game looking to compete, and get eaten alive over and over. The game has never been setup to "welcome" new players as most new player USE to come from other flight games and so knew a bit already. Today we get gamers. Gamers expect things to be genaric from game to game  "A,S,W,D" and a certain controls to the mouse and so on. AH only recently has started bring these settings into play.

No, War Online is going to have very little in common with AH. Its like apples and oranges.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #188 on: January 10, 2019, 09:21:11 PM »
LOL!!! NEVER! Hitech could have done that ten years ago, or anytime since then when all these other games were going with that full F2P, buy to get ahead stuff.

By premium aircraft, I'm not talking about an F-86.  I'm talking about a P-51.  Premium, as in not normally available the the F2P account unless they spend a pile of their war cash on it.  That is no different than a subscriber earning enough perk points to buy a life in a Tempest.  It would have no detrimental effect on the arena.  You wouldn't even notice it.  It would be just another pony, or just another P-38.  It is ridiculous to say that would cause a mass exodus of "oldtimers".  What will cause an exodus is when a MMOG is whittled down to 40 players on a Fri night.   
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline HomeBoy

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 666
      • HomeBoy's Inventions
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #189 on: January 10, 2019, 10:52:24 PM »
This is very much in the "for what it's worth category."  Since I've just completed my two week trial it seems appropriate for me to toss in my two cents (or less).   This thread has generated many reactions for me.   I'll just try to address a few of them.

I had to chuckle a little and also check the dates on the thread to see it if was 2019, 2009, or even 1999 as I have seen these types of threads across that period.  I'm not meaning to criticize as I think it's healthy for everybody to discuss how to make the game better for everyone and how to invite new players.  I've been gone for over ten years and am amazed to find AH still hanging in where Air Warrior, Warbirds, and a WW1 MMOLG (that I can't for the life of me remember the name of) have disappeared (as far as I know).  HTC is obviously doing something right even if subscriptions have dropped off.

This is a difficult game to get into.  I am trying to imagine if these last two weeks had been my first exposure to AH.  I feel quite certain that I would probably have given up in frustration by now.  For starters, is it a WW2 simulator (why are P51s fighting P51s?)?  A dogfighting game?  A tank and vehicle game?  A sea battle game?   Think about it, this is truly a remarkable game as it is ALL of that; and more!  On top of all that, there is virtually no documentation; just a bunch of mostly ancient help documents here and there that I've been seeing for twenty years.  Then there's the Training Arena.   This is a really well designed place where people can come to learn/practice dogfighting, dive and level bombing, etc.   Trouble is, those new to the game will find it pretty much empty and even if it's not, they would find it difficult to make any sense of what's going on in there.  I don't mean for this to come across as negative as it might sound.   I point these things out because there is no getting around it, this is a very complex game that requires huge commitment.   One of the primary reasons I quit playing ten years ago was because it became obvious that if I was ever going to get any better I was going to have to invest huge amounts of time.   I was not willing to do that because I had a career, family, etc.   I just retired so I now have the time.   That's why I'm back.   What saddens me the most concerning a new player is they will likely leave without ever finding out what fantastic people there are here who are willing to spend gobs of time helping anyone who asks.

There are lots of complaints that the size of the community as dropped off so much.   Understandable.  Since AH began, we've had an entire generation come up that didn't grow up  watching WW2 footage on tv and shows glorifying the war.   I'm 66 years old, I've known what a P51 looks like since I was eight years old and spent most of my childhood building Revel models of them and all the other WW2 planes.   That world is gone.  Frankly, it is remarkable that AH still attracts so many people.   That's a testament to the excellent work of HTC.  It truly is a remarkable thing.  I would love to know the demographic for this game.   I would guess that the population under about 40 is pretty small indeed.

But, the purpose of this thread is on how to attract more players.  From my recent experience,  here are a few ideas I've thought about:   some up-to-date documentation like maybe a series of Youtube videos about what the game is about, the incredible knowledge the community has, how accessible the players are, etc.  The TA is key.   Maybe a Basic Training that a new player would "enlist in such that they choose a "military career":    fighter pilot,  tank driver,  heavy bomber, etc.   Maybe they watch the appropriate videos and schedule appointments with volunteers who might want to recruit them into their squad.  By the time they enter the MA,  they at least have some idea what is going on and they'll be flying with squad members they've met and have been training with already.  I don't know, maybe this is pie in the sky.

Like  I said,  for what it's worth.
-hb
The Hay Street Boys

Offline DmonSlyr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6655
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #190 on: January 11, 2019, 01:02:06 AM »
This is very much in the "for what it's worth category."  Since I've just completed my two week trial it seems appropriate for me to toss in my two cents (or less).   This thread has generated many reactions for me.   I'll just try to address a few of them.

I had to chuckle a little and also check the dates on the thread to see it if was 2019, 2009, or even 1999 as I have seen these types of threads across that period.  I'm not meaning to criticize as I think it's healthy for everybody to discuss how to make the game better for everyone and how to invite new players.  I've been gone for over ten years and am amazed to find AH still hanging in where Air Warrior, Warbirds, and a WW1 MMOLG (that I can't for the life of me remember the name of) have disappeared (as far as I know).  HTC is obviously doing something right even if subscriptions have dropped off.

This is a difficult game to get into.  I am trying to imagine if these last two weeks had been my first exposure to AH.  I feel quite certain that I would probably have given up in frustration by now.  For starters, is it a WW2 simulator (why are P51s fighting P51s?)?  A dogfighting game?  A tank and vehicle game?  A sea battle game?   Think about it, this is truly a remarkable game as it is ALL of that; and more!  On top of all that, there is virtually no documentation; just a bunch of mostly ancient help documents here and there that I've been seeing for twenty years.  Then there's the Training Arena.   This is a really well designed place where people can come to learn/practice dogfighting, dive and level bombing, etc.   Trouble is, those new to the game will find it pretty much empty and even if it's not, they would find it difficult to make any sense of what's going on in there.  I don't mean for this to come across as negative as it might sound.   I point these things out because there is no getting around it, this is a very complex game that requires huge commitment.   One of the primary reasons I quit playing ten years ago was because it became obvious that if I was ever going to get any better I was going to have to invest huge amounts of time.   I was not willing to do that because I had a career, family, etc.   I just retired so I now have the time.   That's why I'm back.   What saddens me the most concerning a new player is they will likely leave without ever finding out what fantastic people there are here who are willing to spend gobs of time helping anyone who asks.

There are lots of complaints that the size of the community as dropped off so much.   Understandable.  Since AH began, we've had an entire generation come up that didn't grow up  watching WW2 footage on tv and shows glorifying the war.   I'm 66 years old, I've known what a P51 looks like since I was eight years old and spent most of my childhood building Revel models of them and all the other WW2 planes.   That world is gone.  Frankly, it is remarkable that AH still attracts so many people.   That's a testament to the excellent work of HTC.  It truly is a remarkable thing.  I would love to know the demographic for this game.   I would guess that the population under about 40 is pretty small indeed.

But, the purpose of this thread is on how to attract more players.  From my recent experience,  here are a few ideas I've thought about:   some up-to-date documentation like maybe a series of Youtube videos about what the game is about, the incredible knowledge the community has, how accessible the players are, etc.  The TA is key.   Maybe a Basic Training that a new player would "enlist in such that they choose a "military career":    fighter pilot,  tank driver,  heavy bomber, etc.   Maybe they watch the appropriate videos and schedule appointments with volunteers who might want to recruit them into their squad.  By the time they enter the MA,  they at least have some idea what is going on and they'll be flying with squad members they've met and have been training with already.  I don't know, maybe this is pie in the sky.

Like  I said,  for what it's worth.
-hb

Great write up. I definitely think some training reading material would be great as a manual. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for someone around here to write. It would be useful. I know there use to be a website (maybe Gonzo?) That had all the strengths and weaknesses of the planes. It was great when I was learning the planes. When I started this game, I was blown away by the complexity and challenge of fighting people online rather than computers. You definitely have to do some reading, get your stick and views set up properly, and be very interested in learning air combat if you want to succeed. I'd also recommend finding a player that you know is good, and asking if you can join their plane to see how they play. I love the world atmosphere a lot which is why I am still here. I love the flight model a lot too, but Hitech needs to work on not giving planes so much zoom climb capability. I've noticed that in a lot of new planes since the spit16. The far bases are what really makes it challenging and slow for most new players. That was biggest issue with the MA for a long time. Hitech has finally worked with  me on that. (still think they should be 15 miles apart though).

  I totally agree with you about the training arena. There needs to be a timed schedule on the message board arena and forums, but most importantly in the actual game that has set scheduled times per week so that people can plan on being there. An empty training arena is worthless. If they see a timed training event then they can prepare and go to the event to learn the game as a class with a trainer for that session. It would be the best and most easiest option to help players without having to change anything or do much work at all.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 01:03:44 AM by DmonSlyr »
The Damned(est. 1988)
-=Army of Muppets=-
2014 & 2018 KoTH ToC Champion

Offline TequilaChaser

  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10173
      • The Damned - founded by Ptero in 1988
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #191 on: January 11, 2019, 07:10:45 AM »
Pretty much agree with everything Homeboy posted....especially him checking dates and mentioning whether it was 1999, 2009 or 2019....( btw...that WW] MMOG? Was it something like "First Dawn" or maybe "Red Barron", their were 2 or 3 I remember...and still have my "Fighter Duel" cd...hehe)

Done posted my thoughts regarding the Training materials and Scheduled Training, etc...no need to keep rehashing how I feel about this particular needed part of the game... I'll leave that up to the players themselves to tell HTC and company, what they think or feel is needed....

But, nothing is new under the sun.... and History always repeats itself, sums it all up in a nutshell

~S~

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline save

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2849
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #192 on: January 11, 2019, 08:07:24 AM »
Very much true, IL2 is the closes thing to AH3, albeit harder with engine management, and in case of IL2 CLOD early birds, over-revving the prop/engine.

The more hardcore realists go to DCS.  The more game oriented people go to WT and like such as.

The people seemingly closest to our niche I think are IL2 players.  From what I've seen they seem to think engine management, no icons, eye candy, and paying once for the game are more attractive than this game.  Larger maps and capacity for more people just don't seem to be as important to them.

People keep talking as though there's this giant untapped horde of people that would play this game if only they advertised enough to reach them.  I sincerely don't think that's the case.  I think IL2 has grabbed most of the people who would be inclined to play this game.

Wiley.
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline danny76

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #193 on: January 11, 2019, 08:46:30 AM »
Utter BS. No one is paying for any development of anything HTC does except my investors and me. And the last time I check you did not own any stock.

HiTech

I pay you $15 per month, whatever you choose to invest that in is up to you, but the guys who have been loyal and continued through many years to pay their subs each month have made an investment in your company.

Others may say "thank you for your support"

You scream "utter bs, you don't own any stock"
"You kill 'em all, I'll eat the BATCO!"
The GFC

"Not within a thousand years will man ever fly" - Wilbur Wright

Offline waystin2

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10165
Re: Attracting more players in the main arena or what ever it's called today.
« Reply #194 on: January 11, 2019, 11:22:40 AM »
since I was eight years old and spent most of my childhood building Revel models of them and all the other WW2 planes. 



The air battles I had in my back yard after building them were epic!  Corsairs, Hellcats, 109's & Zeros, those poor planes were beat to bits but I used every bit of the imagination they had in them.  Thanks for reminding me why I came here!
CO for the Pigs On The Wing
& The nicest guy in Aces High!