Staged Mission Editor: Best Climb Seems FUBAR

[CptTrips]

The large difference may also just be with WWI planes. I never tested the WWI ai.

HiTech

Entirely likely.  That is why I added the caveat (At Least for the Camel).

I can tell you from my experience there is a big difference in how insane the AI's maneuvering ability between the WWII aircraft I have tested Staged Missions with and the WWI aircraft. 

The WWII AI is pretty scary, but the WWI AI seems off the chart.  See my previous challenge here: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,394820.0.html

I'd pay you a U.S. dollar to fight that guy and post me a film.     Short of a HO, or a maneuver kill, there is no physical way to out fly him.  Maybe an extremely luck snap shot.  But you definitely get the feeling the AI has a silly turn rate.   

Luckily he can't shoot straight, so you can delay the inevitable, but he will continue to close on you with a slower plane until he rams you from behind.   

And yet, they can't climb out on route at a reasonable rate.    I've said this AI is like retarded Terminators. 

It there any data I can help collect for you to assist your analysis?  Would it help to manually fly various climbs at various speeds at various alts with the WWI planes and collect that data?  I'm willing to help any way I can.

[hitech]

Ok did some testing and looking.

The AI climb is very close to the real flight model. The easy mode flight model uses the AI flight model so was simple for me to test.

The editor show bests climb rate is at 75% power. If you switch to military it shows climb rate at 95% power.

Also the calc for it is an quick approximation, and will show lower then what the AI can really do.

And finally , if your segment is even 1 foot per min greater then what the model can do, the AI plane will go into a stall condition and never catch up. I.E. don't ever exceed what the max climb rate shows with military power.

Also at some point I'll take a look at changing the AI slightly so if on a climb segment, they never fly slower then Best Climb Speed.

HiTech

[FLS]

The WW1 AI don't seem g limited.

The best strategy if the AI is in a rotary engine a/c is to get them to spiral climb to the right.

[CptTrips]

Ok did some testing and looking.

The AI climb is very close to the real flight model. The easy mode flight model uses the AI flight model so was simple for me to test.

The editor show bests climb rate is at 75% power. If you switch to military it shows climb rate at 95% power.

Also the calc for it is an quick approximation, and will show lower then what the AI can really do.

And finally , if your segment is even 1 foot per min greater then what the model can do, the AI plane will go into a stall condition and never catch up. I.E. don't ever exceed what the max climb rate shows with military power.

Also at some point I'll take a look at changing the AI slightly so if on a climb segment, they never fly slower then Best Climb Speed.

HiTech

OK, my bad.

So I was flying 70mph climb at full throttle.  At military throttle the Editor is reporting 783 fpm.  Still a lot lower than the ~1100 fpm I flew. 

I guess that last 5% throttle is enough to make that difference?  PLus it is a conservative estimate.

Could we have options for standard, military, and full throttle climb?

People are impatient, and no one around here pays for engine maintenance. 

At a 100% throttle setting, it should have pretty much matched what I flew?




[edit]  hmmmmmm  You just gave me an idea.  When I fly and record my routes, I could set my settings to easy mode so I can just fly like the AI?  So I'll just fly like the AI instead of trying to get the AI to fly like me. That might help me avoid problems like this.

Does that mean I get to make 60g turns too? 

 

[CptTrips]

The WW1 AI don't seem g limited.

That is great flying, but even he seemed tame to what I was seeing.

Mind sanity checking me with this one?  Waffle Terrain.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,394820.0.html

That video is old enough to make me wonder if things have been exacerbated since then. 

(If you did try that one, and you get a shot at him, could you confirm if the AI seems very fragile to hits?  That seems to have changed lately, but maybe I am misinterpreting that too.)

Hmmm maybe I ought to try that one again too.  That was last Oct and easy mode might have been tweaked.  Everything is a moving target.

[FLS]

The Wiki climb data on the Camel comes from this document which I posted here some years ago. I don't know if we have the same engine modeled.

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-468/app-a.htm

[hitech]

T
Hmmm maybe I ought to try that one again too.  That was last Oct and easy mode might have been tweaked.  Everything is a moving target.

Easy mode was not written until Dec 2018

HiTech

[CptTrips]

Easy mode was not written until Dec 2018

HiTech

Well tried that 1v1 again and it was pretty much what I remembered.  I did hold him off in a stalemate for a long time.  I just kept trying to out climb him.   

[hitech]

Well tried that 1v1 again and it was pretty much what I remembered.  I did hold him off in a stalemate for a long time.  I just kept trying to out climb him.   

With WOP we have added AI ability settings. I just have not put them in the Mission Editor yet. Lets you set things like max g range. And other numbers which modify the performance of the AI.

HiTech

[CptTrips]

With WOP we have added AI ability settings. I just have not put them in the Mission Editor yet. Lets you set things like max g range. And other numbers which modify the performance of the AI.

HiTech

That will be freakin awesome! 



Think this stuff could ever lead to a stand alone single player game?  Mo money, mo money....

[hitech]

That will be freakin awesome! 



Think this stuff could ever lead to a stand alone single player game?  Mo money, mo money....

I have considered selling missions, game free, and mission creators get a cut. But the mission arena never seemed to attacked any interest.

HiTech

[CptTrips]

I have considered selling missions, game free, and mission creators get a cut. But the mission arena never seemed to attacked any interest.

HiTech

The problem with mission arena is that you are pitching your current players who are conditioned to only go to the MA and expect to be playing other players.  There are many players out there who don't want to play other people, they just want something they can play by themselves when they have a spare hour.  There are a lot of people who would be less intimidated just fighting AI. That would target a completely different player base.  The non-multi-player crowd.

Rather than a Mission Arena, I was thinking more of a separate install, packaged offline stand-alone single-player game.  Released on Steam or purchased off your website.  A couple of terrains with a sets of missions taking the player through a series of career progression missions.    "Aces High: Air Combat Anthology"   

Terrain 1: Battle of Britain
20 missions career  progression; RAF pilot starting with Hurricane's and the being transferred to Spits.  Big finally, massive dogfights over London!

Terrain 2: Stuka Pilot
20 missions career  progression;  Barbarossa to Kursk.  Attacking tanks, airfields, shipping, refugee columns.    

Terrain 3: Cadillac of the Sky
20 missions P-51 career progression ETO;  Bomber escorts.  Fighter sweeps. Airfield strafing.

Etc.


Sorry.  Apparently I've had way too much coffee this afternoon.