Author Topic: Open Source What You Can  (Read 2901 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Open Source What You Can
« on: February 05, 2019, 11:13:51 AM »

I'd like to see HTC continue to find ways to leverage their fan base as a force multiplier. 

I'd like to see the tools like Staged Mission Editor and Terrain Editor Skin Viewer etc open sourced. 

Anything involving OpSec could be encapsulated in a compiled library, but the grunt UI could be made available for technically capable fans to fix minor bugs or make minor enhancements. 

Hitech should be spending his time of the big stuff.  He would still be the project owner.  I've worked on projects that used GitHub where proposed changes could be posted and the project owner would review and if agreed, merge in the changes to the base version. He would still maintain control but might could offload some of the little stuff to others.  Tools like Visual Studio Community Addition have gotten quite good.  Even Mcrosoft is figuring out the power of open source: https://www.hanselman.com/blog/AnnouncingWPFWinFormsAndWinUIAreGoingOpenSource.aspx

Look at all the excellent work done by fans like Greebo and Buster.  There are probably lots of coaders out here too.

Help us help you.

:salute,
CptTrips



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Offline AAIK

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 12:08:13 PM »
A clever idea, open source the toolset  :aok . That would really reap rewards if it got a following. The map editor isn't exactly the easiest to use...

Offline bustr

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 01:40:05 PM »
Even with L3DT you still have to sit down and do a layout of your world on a piece of paper or in a 2D art program. With Artiki's program you have to learn how find the proper files for import then how to import and massage them in the terrain editor. With the AH terrain editor it's not very complicated. You design the gross land masses in the center 2048x2048 of a 4096x4096 png file in PS or something similar. Then you have to convert it to a 16bit grayscale, the shades of gray starting at sea level = 1000gray to the maximum elevation of 32,000ft = 33000gray. Then convert that to a signed or unsigned RAW format to import into the terrain editor. Then you will have all of your foundational land formations and away you go transforming it into a world that you finish by painting with tree and clutter tiles. As for the TE tools, they are easy enough to learn on the fly, that is how I created my first terrain by seeing what happened when I used a tool.

It really is not complicated, just time consuming even if you do as much 3D construction as possible in L3DT. After 2 years of none stop work and 3 MA terrains, I can tell you, you can go safe with as simple as possible like NDisles or, the complexity I gradually increased by my third terrain riftval. Then there is AH Melee arena game theory as applied to encouraging groups of players to converge as much as possible. That is a schizophrenic impossible proposition since you have three primary game play groups constantly accusing the other two of killing AH3 with their lame play style and mad at you for not creating their idea of utopia. Maybe WO:P will ease some of that tension in the Melee arena since it's what the furball players have tried to describe as their utopia for years. That still leaves the win the war group and GV group who's goals often dove tail better during game play.

About the easiest Hitech could make the TE for hands on use is to create a 3D shape clone tool that you can copy then paste down and rotate the final heading of the cloned object. Otherwise it's just months of tedious busywork you have to be willing to invest. And to be really honest, a month or so of reviewing all the terrains in rotation to understand why things were constructed they way they were. Then time spent with a test terrain testing construction ideas for features. My first terrain BowlMA ended up being a gigantic test terrain, then for the last two I used a small test terrain to see if ideas would work or how to make them work. On BowlMA becasue I ended up using it to learn terrain building the hard way. I routinely built out hundreds of square miles then erased them and started over. By the time I created riftval, I was reviewing the competition's terrains to see how their builders created micro terrain for localized tank combat.

Some have said that's too much effort for a kiddy game, Hitech updated the graphics engine and the terrain tile trees and clutter to a higher standard than AH2. Kind of opened the door to raise the bar for MA terrains considering our competition's terrains in their kiddy games.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 02:16:06 PM »
Even with L3DT you still have to sit down...


I'm thinking more of just grunt stuff. 

Oh, a checkbox isn't working.  Do we really need Hitech to stop work on a new damage system to go fix a checkbox?
Oh, it would be nice to have a menu item to iterate the waypoint segments and fill and re-calc each.  Does that really require Hitech to stop work on a new strat logic to go do that? 
Oh, it would be nice to add Easyscor's help doc to the deployment and hookup the editors help menu to open it.  Maybe something like doesn't really require Hitech's unique skill sets.



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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2019, 11:15:06 AM »
To be open source the right way, the underlying architecture of Aces High has to be designed to allow API interfacing from third-party developers (which it is not).  Dale and Doug would’ve have to of designed it right out of the gate.  And if you’re going to do it right, you just don’t limit it to the train and other editors. You need the ability for 3rd party developers/players to add their own interfaces and earn a few $$$ or ensure it’s always free.

Brill idea but unfortunately were far too down the rabbit hole to make this happen for AH3...  Maybe for the next version?

Alternatively, HTC could release the source code for the editors. :x

"Games are meant to be fun and fair but fighting a war is neither." - HiTech

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 11:19:36 AM »
let's talk about somebody else fixing that box. so now hitec checks to see if that box works.  pretty simple right? unless of course he also needs to check the rest of the code to make sure nobody tries to sneak in an extra thing or two.


semp
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Offline hitech

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 11:26:32 AM »
Think of how many people are interested in building content for AH (not many). Even less would be interested in modifying code.

HiTech



Offline CptTrips

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 11:50:10 AM »
Think of how many people are interested in building content for AH (not many). Even less would be interested in modifying code.

HiTech

I would when some silly little bug gets in the way of me getting something done.   :D

I'd even slum down to C++ to do it.  :neener:
 
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Offline bustr

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 12:23:07 PM »
And here I was hoping for a fourth tile set for the terrain editor where the textured stone had at least three variations to enable smoother transition lines and theme development at lower elevations. Positioning all the rock tiles on the fourth row up from the bottom has caused no end to transition ugliness that eat up time trying to adjust the cosmetics. That decision also limits your theme some what to a macro repetition of how you paint large topographical structures. Would have been nice with the rivers I put in to have a red, brown, or grey rock tile positioned somewhere in the bottom two rows so I could create convincing low elevation water cut features for the river path's to flow through. I over used the sandstone on riftval when other stone types are prevalent in desert and sub Sahara regions of the world. A red brown volcanic rock type is often found in those regions.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline bustr

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 01:40:26 PM »
Krappers, I just made the mistake of opening the object editor to look at a clutter object to see how textured stone for mountains is made..seems it's a 3D effect and not a collection of objects on a tile..... :bhead

Just like when I couldn't get Hitech to produce a gunnery training terrain for offline, and now I have MA terrains and an offline only gunnery terrain I share. The 16x16 grid kind of gave away what the object\tile editor is for. Since the grid is not checked by default when you open the app, it's kind of none intuitive like the terrain editor until you lay down your first block of ground. Right there is what stops most players from ever building terrains becasue even a 6mile diameter blob of ground is a sand grain on a 250,000sq mile area for an MA arena. Nothing intuitive about these content editors unless you push buttons to see what breaks. Then half the time a button won't work becasue you haven't gotten enough created to see how it works. And sometimes when that point is reached, you learn why backups are a good thing. :bhead

Makes this comment very poignant:

Quote
Think of how many people are interested in building content for AH (not many). Even less would be interested in modifying code.

HiTech

Guess this is another epiphany moment with Hitech that he provided me with the tools to make my asking for wishes moot.... :salute

bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 05:39:46 PM »
Think of how many people are interested in building content for AH (not many). Even less would be interested in modifying code.

HiTech

Spanish Civil war!  :D

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 05:53:02 PM »
Spanish Civil war!  :D

All the tools are sitting right there.  Don't wait for someone else.

Carpe Diam.
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 06:04:17 PM »
All the tools are sitting right there.  Don't wait for someone else.

Carpe Diam.

Wait! We can design and upload the Polikarpov I-15 'Chato' and the Fiat CR-32? I've been out of touch.  ;)

Carpe Diem

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 06:05:13 PM »
Wait! We can design and upload the Polikarpov I-15 'Chato' and the Fiat CR-32? I've been out of touch.  ;)

Carpe Diem

Do what Scenarios do.  Find a reasonable substitute and skin it.

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Offline Arlo

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Re: Open Source What You Can
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 06:09:07 PM »
Do what Scenarios do.  Find a reasonable substitute and skin it.

You seem confused about open source content, all of a sudden. I've been a part of substituting (with skins, even) since AW. That's not open source content addition.