Late war Plane dillema

[Arlo]

Exactly, which is why I say by its very nature this game will just never be that popular.  IMO by changing it to be like those other games, it's effectively the same as shutting it down and creating a new game.  This game is awesome with 500 people in the arena.  Unfortunately, without that kind of numbers the fun level diminishes rapidly.

It simply boils down to the gaming community has moved on and expects more of a game than an arena like it is here.  Giving people a world and letting their emergent behavior create gameplay is just not sufficient for today's gamer.

They need to accomplish something in about half an hour.  They need to see a number in a database go up a few points over time so they can show "improvement" (which actually means just putting your time in) I haven't played BF but I bet you still progress even if you lose every round and die a lot more than you kill.  They need some kind of developer-created content to work towards and spend their ingame earned points and microtransaction money on, like hats or new vehicles or new paint jobs for their vehicles.

And above all, they need things to be "fair" however they've decided to define it.  Can't have advanced planes fighting early planes, can't have a heavy numbers disparity.  Ideally there should be some kind of ELO skill balancing.

This is not that.  For the vast majority, that's a problem.  For some, it's what they want, if the numbers are there.

Wiley.

But the same player driven actions that can diminish the fun can be countered with player driven actions that can enhance the fun. Squads still exist, though many of them are devoted primarily to FSOs or events. Squads could just as easily challenge each other to squad on squad fun in the MA. This precludes the lack of numbers/ oh I'm bored/can't find a decent fight mentality/environment. It could even be turned into a regular 'event', so to speak - but without the artificial massaging. A squad could choose what they want to accomplish versus the other squad and that can (probably has to) be fluid. Do we grab defended territory? Do we rack up kills of the other squad?

[Wiley]

Would you prefer HTC to shut down and have no AH at all as opposed to changing something?

I like the freedom it provides when it's got numbers.  If it just turns into another WT clone, what's the point?

Fantasy and sci-fi games seem to be popular.  Would you cheer, "Huzzah!  Aces High is saved!" if they brought in a ton of new players by getting rid of all this WWII stuff and turned it into a dating simulator centered around gender fluid orcs in power armor riding dragons?  Changing it into something it's not is pretty much the same as shutting it down.

It won't happen tomorrow, but eventually it hits some critical mass and then everyone leaves at once.  Just ask MySpace.

AS I stated, there is a huge amount of emergent behavior in games like BF.  People come up with stuff the designers could never have imagined.    It's just that a map doesn't drag on for a week with no resolution.

Now take away all the class progress/points/unlock stuff.  How many people would stick around?  I know my money's on "few".

You rank up a class based on earning points for kills, capturing bases, and winning the match.  I don't think you get penalized for dying.  They want to promote action, not timid loss aversion.

As you move up in rank up, certain more advanced weapons are unlocked that you can purchase with your earned points.  So yeah, you get better players with better weapons.  War is Hell.  You can't buy more advanced weapons.  They tried to sneak a little of that into Star Wars Battlefront and got burned alive.

I reiterate, you still make progress even if you barely get kills and lose every round, right?  The "progress" is a time counter.  I've gotten all kinds of points in PUBG.  I still suck.

"Slowly at first.  Then suddenly."

  I'd like to see that not happen, even if that means change over time.  They are a home-town company.  I've always rooted for them and always will.

From where I'm sitting, it's a rock and a hard place.  They're more or less unique in the industry, and that's why I'm here.  Unfortunately, that uniqueness isn't as popular as other stuff.

Wiley.

[bustr]

POTW provides that on Tuesday night with between 12-20 players. We up and go mass mosh the pit and let the chips fall where they will. Or is it cooler to say let the bodies hit the floor which we do a lot of to the red guys. It amazes me in the face of all this complaining how we always find something fun and interesting to blow up even on off nights from squad night.

[FLS]

A number of bases scaled appropriately to the number of players in a server.  It is as open a sandbox as AH. 

There's one of the differences, it's not one server, it's many different servers.

You can run any map in AH in a player arena with 2 sides and side balancing. Tell all the bored players in the MA about it.

If it's popular it would be a better argument for a permanent setup than the usual complaints.

WO:P is free, it's two sides, instant action, and easier flying for new players. Not seeing a lot of people there.

[Wiley]

But the same player driven actions that can diminish the fun can be countered with player driven actions that can enhance the fun. Squads still exist, though many of them are devoted primarily to FSOs or events. Squads could just as easily challenge each other to squad on squad fun in the MA. This precludes the lack of numbers/ oh I'm bored/can't find a decent fight mentality/environment. It could even be turned into a regular 'event', so to speak - but without the artificial massaging. A squad could choose what they want to accomplish versus the other squad and that can (probably has to) be fluid. Do we grab defended territory? Do we rack up kills of the other squad?

But squads are made up of players.  There are 3 big squads in the arena that meet regularly every day.  They choose what they want to accomplish vs the other two squads and that is fluid.  What we see is the result.

Wiley.

[Arlo]

POTW provides that on Tuesday night with between 12-20 players. We up and go mass mosh the pit and let the chips fall where they will. Or is it cooler to say let the bodies hit the floor which we do a lot of to the red guys. It amazes me in the face of all this complaining how we always find something fun and interesting to blow up even on off nights from squad night.

I applaud POTW MA squad nights. I think it would be even 'funner' if there was a dedicated nemesis sqaud of equal numbers that flew that night, as well. Heck, imagine if each chessnation had a squad that did this in a free-for all? 

[bustr]

Dickweeds up massive B17 missions 9pm promptly Tuesday nights and we send out 3-8 262 along with other interceptors to stop them. They recruit the services of escorts to try and stop us. When we attack something on that night we always gain a massive response becasue we have numbers to fight against. No wishing needed, we are a Tuesday night institution in the MA. It's all Hitech's fault for that Titanic Tuesday nonsense. After he closed the second MA, we were in the habit of meeting on Tuesdays. It does spice up the mid week for customers.

Sometimes for us it's a chance to test FSO strategies if we got our tails handed to us the previous Friday. And the forth Friday of each month we show up out of habit and do a second squad night. See...we is busy little piggies with no time to whine about nonsense to Hitech becasue we go create problems for the red guys. We end up with drop by guests all the time becasue we go and break things. We don't mind the company and the numbers surprise people to how much fun gets generated. Meh, we act like a feral pig herd marching through a vegetable patch. And the farmer's dogs just make good scoobi snacks......

[novice]

Good to know you guys are up and about Tuesdays Ill make sure im around that time!

[CptTrips]

I like the freedom it provides when it's got numbers.  If it just turns into another WT clone, what's the point?

That is a false dilemma.  There is a huge design space between the current AH design and WT that could be explored.  It isn't a binary choice. 

Now take away all the class progress/points/unlock stuff.  How many people would stick around?  I know my money's on "few".
...
I reiterate, you still make progress even if you barely get kills and lose every round, right?  The "progress" is a time counter.

In BF, if you didn't get kills, and didn't help capture bases, and your team didn't win matches, then I don't believe you earn any point or progress in rank.  I don't believe you get points for time-of-play.  At least I never noticed that.

You realize I wasn't suggesting a rank progression for AH, right?  I was merely trying to answer the question you asked earlier.

The main things I think could be learned from BF that is applicable to AH is:

1. Shortening time-to-action seems to reduce loss aversion and increases pace and cadence of action. 

2.  Proper map-scale:player-count ratio helps facilitate #1.  Grow the player-count or reduce the map-scale. (Their spawn mechanism is the other big part of that but I don't think that would work in AH, although, I could see bomber air-starts helping.)

3.  Their time-based ticket loss mechanism forces the losing side to act quickly to reverse the balance or inevitably lose even if they hold a stale-mate.  That can create some rather astounding battles of desperation.  And it puts some time limit on the cycle.  That could work in AH without huge changes.  The current victory conditions or a loss of all tickets which ever comes first.  Each country starts with (just making up a number) 250 "morale points".  Each minute a country has a deficit of bases they lose a point.  Nothing concentrates the mind like a deadline.  Say a 4 hour war cycle?  Would that be horrible?

Did you have a different suggestion? 

[AAIK]

The reality is that everyone who comes here is looking for a "fix". If there is no "fix" to be found then people won't be coming back.

People use more advanced aircraft to get that "fix" because its easier. People fly a harder plane because it gives a greater "fix".

We are all looking for the same thing. Its just a matter of harnessing that system of giving people "fixes" that HTC needs to figure out.

[CptTrips]

You can run any map in AH in a player arena with 2 sides and side balancing. Tell all the bored players in the MA about it.

If it's popular it would be a better argument for a permanent setup than the usual complaints.

LoL.  I knew it wouldn't take you long.

So in your view:

1.  The numbers are fine?
2.  The long term trend in numbers is fine?
3.  Nothing needs to be changed!  Stop talking about it!

If not the above, what is your suggestion?

If the above...good luck with that.

[pembquist]

The real question is how much would it cost to pay 500 players somewhere in the world to play?

[CptTrips]

The real question is how much would it cost to pay 500 players somewhere in the world to play?

Asian or East European?


[forgot the smiley] 

[Shuffler]

I would.  Not only would I complain, I'd cancel my account which has been active for 19 years.

I would too..............

[FLS]

LoL.  I knew it wouldn't take you long.

So in your view:

1.  The numbers are fine?
2.  The long term trend in numbers is fine?
3.  Nothing needs to be changed!  Stop talking about it!

If not the above, what is your suggestion?

If the above...good luck with that.

I never said any of those things. I can't even imagine a connection.

I said you can set up a game more like the one you want.

That's already available in AH. The bored players can join you there.

What part of that is hard to understand?

Do you believe nobody will join you?  If that's true what does it mean?