Target for Today - "Bavaria 1945" - Event Write-Up

[swareiam]

4 262 ain't gonna do nothing...but there won't be a 38 safe from my g14 squad

I am not normally an antagonist, but...

Shuffler,

Don't let him call you out like that Bro. Get a 38 seat. 

[puller]

No no no...there are 4 262s...he can't play... scared

[Guppy35]

Guppy,

We actually discussed Me 262's at length while designing this. If you look at the change logs in the event you will see that the discussion swung many times. The Me 262 is overrated in events, in my opinion and some others. Sounds rich from perdweeb, I know, but success against high altitude, late war USAAF is difficult to obtain. B-17 and B-24 formations (boxes if you will) are death sentences to 262's. I, and my squadron under my orders in FSO, do not attack them unless they are alone (without fighters and without multiple formations around them). If the sets find themselves alone, they are certainly dead. So, instead, it is more effective to attack and attract escorts. This also means that you are a target for likely higher fighters. In this setup, there is no fighter alt cap. Me 262's will struggle to get to 28K while P-51's and P-47's circle over at 32-34K. Relatively, the 262 is not as fast as it seems at 12K in the MA, the speed charts conform to this.

With regards to the number of Me 262's, it is a twofold answer. Having anything less than 4 of anything that shoots down aircraft should not happen. This is regardless of how many pilots are participating. It makes for a strange strategic element as well as a strange experience for the pilots. This is an opinion, mind you, and I expect many to disagree with this. I believe that if you cannot justify having four fighters of any kind, then you may as well have zero. I do not recall jets throwing things off. I remember Frame 6 of BoG when the jets did little, accounting for only around 10% of the total Axis kills. I am not saying that jets aren't or won't be impactful, but they are nothing like what you are describing. I have flown 262's in about every setting one could imagine, my least favorite is against late war Americans at high altitude. The reasons for this should be obvious.

As for the Ar 234, it is nigh harmless. It scouts and goes fast, that is about it. It is not allowed to attack bombers nor may it bomb anything. It will just fly around and report locations. I wouldn't worry too much about them, personally.

After consoling the list of aircraft and squadrons available in this event, I thought I might like to fly the Me 262 and lead its pilots. As the CO of the only dedicated Me 262 squadron in Aces High, I believe our squadron and myself always needs sharpening. In fact, last year we had a squad discussion about our poor performances in jets over the last few events we had them in. I really enjoy flying the Me 262, just as some enjoy flying F4U's, P-38's, Fw 190D's, P-51's, etc. I also enjoy the tactics at the grand and local levels of a jet squadron. I don't quite understand how it looks bad to choose an airplane and squadron to fly in on the registration page. With that being said, if a newcomer to TFT wishes to fly a Me 262 and there are none to go around, he may certainly fly mine a round or two if the Axis CO is okay with it .

I appreciate your taking the time to respond.  But I will still disagree.  Having been in those scenarios where Jets were involved I know from the Allied side how much of an impact they have for those that have to deal with them.  You've not been in that position in a scenario.  The bombers aren't at high alt and with the LW fighter force larger than the Allied fighter escort, it makes it that much more unbalanced.  The argument made for balanced numbers or in general larger LW fighters to defend, is playability and 'fairness'.  The same applies when it comes to jets.  They have a far greater impact in these scenarios than they ever did historically. 

I do understand that this isn't going to change for this event.

[Guppy35]

No no no...there are 4 262s...he can't play... scared

Tell that to the guys who are upset at the idea of the AH Buffalo being used in the Midway scenario....

[perdue3]

I appreciate your taking the time to respond.  But I will still disagree.  Having been in those scenarios where Jets were involved I know from the Allied side how much of an impact they have for those that have to deal with them.  You've not been in that position in a scenario.  The bombers aren't at high alt and with the LW fighter force larger than the Allied fighter escort, it makes it that much more unbalanced.  The argument made for balanced numbers or in general larger LW fighters to defend, is playability and 'fairness'.  The same applies when it comes to jets.  They have a far greater impact in these scenarios than they ever did historically. 

I do understand that this isn't going to change for this event.

You aren't wrong, Guppy. I have never been on the escorting side of things trying to corner jets. I have also never flown bombers against jets in scenarios. I would guess that I have flown a jet in events more than most and based on that experience, they are not as scary as you describe them. I am as afraid of B-17's as they are of me. Alas, these are differing opinions and not facts. So it is somewhat moot and futile.

Even though the event is designed to have the Luftwaffe outnumber the Allied escorts, I doubt it will work out that way. Because of the nature of the event and lack of launch windows, it will be somewhat of a circus on the Luftwaffe side. I hope this is not the case and as a Luftwaffe officer, I will do my best to keep this from happening. But, as people die and relaunch at will, things will get spread out and sparse. So, even if the Luftwaffe outnumbers the Allied fighters, I doubt they will ever actually be outnumbered. Not to mention the ominous registration numbers as of today.

The decision really came down to it being a 1945 event. Why run a 1945 event and leave out 1945 aircraft? Rather than going with both the Ta 152 and Me 262, we decided to go with only the Me 262. In many ways, the Ta 152 is much more dangerous. The same would (sort of) apply to a 1945 Pacific event. The B-29 would (probably) be included, but in a fictional role as it would likely be escorted at medium altitudes rather than firebombing at night or flying unescorted at 42,000 ft. Here, the Me 262 is not in a fictional role like the B-29 would be.

[Shuffler]

I am not normally an antagonist, but...

Shuffler,

Don't let him call you out like that Bro. Get a 38 seat. 

His post is of no consequence to me. That type of gruff might bother a young one.

Ignoring our scenario history just means we are doomed to repeat our mistakes.

I will leave it at that. It is my opinion. I will not say any more about it so that others might form their own opinion.

[Arlo]

I am as afraid of B-17's as they are of me.

Well, this is your timid-free event, then. You can shed the shackles of fear when you have unlimited 262s and you can up and get back into the fray faster than any other combat plane in the setup.

Splashing a 262 should be worth more points than other kills, though. 

[swareiam]

Ignoring our scenario history just means we are doomed to repeat our mistakes.

No, what is both dooming and damning is when we look at history that is not so pleasant and do nothing about it. We fare far better if we move forward together as we make mistakes along the way to correct our issues.

This makes me think of the guy that has $500.00 in his pocket and he's driving around with a slow leak in his front left tire. He complains about it, but he won't do anything about it, especially when has the means to do so. 

Com'n... Enough is enough.

[Arlo]

No, what is both dooming and damning is when we look at history that is not so pleasant and do nothing about it. We fare far better if we move forward together as we make mistakes along the way to correct our issues.

This makes me think of the guy that has $500.00 in his pocket and he's driving around with a slow leak in his front left tire. He complains about it, but he won't do anything about it, especially when has the means to do so. 

[swareiam]

(Image removed from quote.)

Arlo,

We'll let you be the only one, okay...

[Arlo]

Arlo,

We'll let you be the only one, okay...

Ok. I'm the only one.

[Shuffler]

No, what is both dooming and damning is when we look at history that is not so pleasant and do nothing about it. We fare far better if we move forward together as we make mistakes along the way to correct our issues.

This makes me think of the guy that has $500.00 in his pocket and he's driving around with a slow leak in his front left tire. He complains about it, but he won't do anything about it, especially when has the means to do so. 

Com'n... Enough is enough.

Exactly .... and nothing is being done about it. Just repeating the same mistake. Glad to see you agree.

[perdue3]

Exactly .... and nothing is being done about it. Just repeating the same mistake. Glad to see you agree.

What would you recommend aside from removing the six jets?

[Arlo]

What would you recommend aside from removing the six jets?

Not speaking for Shuf, but ....

Just allow the Arados to be shot down on sight and up the points for either them or the 262s being splashed. Then have at it. Unlimited free jets in an event, man.

[puller]

Wow

So we're gonna do this????

How about give the Axis 10 152s for our jets because freaking 24 ponies is too many