Author Topic: WWI: Western Front  (Read 6070 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2019, 10:05:32 AM »
If you could achieve the mighty 8th bomber formations without having their gunners be lead-calculating monsters, it would be another "oh wow" experience.

Don't worry about it until you're happy with the bugs you've exterminated in the WWI arena. Keep up the hard work sir!


Well, part of the tweaks Hitech made to help support this project was exposing AI ability variables in the Mission Editor.  There are some variables for controlling gunnery ability.  I haven't tested yet, but I assume those would control gunners as well as fighters.  I might set up a quicky test mission you can run in a custom arena.

Of course, also, in a mission, you'd be attacking with other AI fighters so the gunner load would be spread.

I suspect the harder problem would be fps preservation if you truly  tried to reproduce the accurate number of bombers and fighters.  Worth some quick prototype experiments.


:salute,
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Offline Bushmills

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2019, 11:48:41 AM »
I flew tonight with server. Two others showed up roo. Was pretty fun. I shot a barrage balloon. We were flying out of A7. Thos Triplanes turn on a dime.

Shuffler stealing all the glory as usual!  :banana: That balloon was a team effort, I demand 1/8 th of that kill!  :rofl :airplane:

CptTrips  :salute a fantastic idea I had good fun, and I'll be back, naturally the hun was no match for the mighty camel  :D

Have you ever played Red Baron 2 CptTrips?

Offline CptTrips

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2019, 12:10:30 PM »
Shuffler stealing all the glory as usual!  :banana: That balloon was a team effort, I demand 1/8 th of that kill!  :rofl :airplane:

CptTrips  :salute a fantastic idea I had good fun, and I'll be back, naturally the hun was no match for the mighty camel  :D

Have you ever played Red Baron 2 CptTrips?


Damn that Shuffler!  Just explain to the Reporting Officer.  He'll get your credit marked.  HQ might be confused with a total of 10/8th credit on a single balloon.  That's RAF math for ya.  It got worse in BoB.  ;)

It really feels good to know you had fun.  After 8 months of grinding, at least I can feel I wasn't totally wasting my time.  It was by no means a guarantee anyone would even like it.   I was just burning a lot of man-hour on a roll of the dice.

Oh yeah.  I played the heck out of RBII.  Even more the original RB.  That was the game that got me hooked on the idea of flightsims.  I've developed an love of WWII as well over the years, but WWI will always be like that first girlfriend in my memory!

:salute





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Offline Shuffler

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2019, 12:20:31 PM »

Damn that Shuffler!  Just explain to the Reporting Officer.  He'll get your credit marked.  HQ might be confused with a total of 10/8th credit on a single balloon.  That's RAF math for ya.  It got worse in BoB.  ;)

It really feels good to know you had fun.  After 8 months of grinding, at least I can feel I wasn't totally wasting my time.  It was by no means a guarantee anyone would even like it.   I was just burning a lot of man-hour on a roll of the dice.

Oh yeah.  I played the heck out of RBII.  Even more the original RB.  That was the game that got me hooked on the idea of flightsims.  I've developed an love of WWII as well over the years, but WWI will always be like that first girlfriend in my memory!

:salute

OH Lord... when I went back on later and saw my post. I posted quickly and did not proof read. LOL

I flew with dervert. We had a great time.

In any case I will be back in there more. I can see that building in popularity in the coming months. I am not even a really big fan of WWI but that does peak my interest.

I do commend you on your hard work. Thank you for your time in working on this project. I think this will pay off in spades. 
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2019, 12:39:21 PM »
I do commend you on your hard work. Thank you for your time in working on this project. I think this will pay off in spades.

Thanks  Shuffler.  Some of the future projects might be even more to your liking.

The next ones will still be a lot of work, but not a complete shot in the dark.  We've worked through all the mission server kinks, we have new server and mission capabilities, and I've gone from zero knowledge, and making dumb mistakes  ;),  to at least having a clear idea on how to do what I want to do.

Hitech deserves as much credit as me.  I didn't think I'd be able to talk him into this sillyness.  It took a little to explain to him why I wanted scheduled Stages Missions that no player sees or joins.   :D  But once he got what I was trying to do, he was 100% supportive.  It would simply not have been possible without the ability variables and changes to the mission system to run multiple, concurrent, overlapping scheduled missions.  Even adding the whole concept of missions that are AI only and not listed to the player.  This was a pretty big deviation from the original Staged Mission design intent. This would not have been possible last year, before he added the tweaks.  I was originally designing this as a series of personal offline Staged Missions. 

:salute,
CptTrips
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Offline Wiley

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2019, 12:48:34 PM »
Even adding the whole concept of missions that are AI only and not listed to the player.  This was a pretty big deviation from the original Staged Mission design intent. This would not have been possible last year, before he added the tweaks.  I was originally designing this as a series of personal offline Staged Missions. 

:salute,
CptTrips

 :headscratch: Something something FSO something bomber stream something something...?

Wiley.
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Offline Bushmills

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2019, 12:48:59 PM »
Oh yeah.  I played the heck out of RBII.  Even more the original RB.  That was the game that got me hooked on the idea of flightsims.  I've developed an love of WWII as well over the years, but WWI will always be like that first girlfriend in my memory!

I would pinch as much as possible from RB2 in terms of gameplay, it was an oddly engrossing game for what it was and had a strong following. Its a pity we didn't have someone as talented as you when the original WW1 arena was on the wane, a lot of what you implemented people were wishing for at the time, appreciate the time you put in  :salute

Offline CptTrips

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2019, 01:01:10 PM »
:headscratch: Something something FSO something bomber stream something something...?

Wiley.


Even in the old Mission Arena, missions will start with AI if no one has joined.  But that is different thanif they aren't even listed for the user to join.  Missions that are hidden from the user and can't be joined.  AI only missions that don't pop up a dialog in the arena informing players that the mission is about to start.  That would be annoying in WW1WF with an AI mission starting every 2 min.   That was a new scheduled mission capability to make those scheduled AI missions behave differently than normal player-joinable Staged Missions. 

Also, the Mission Arena didn't have the concept of multiple missions running on the same map concurrently and overlapping.  Hitech had to add that to make this possible.

And missions run directly ad-hoc are different than scheduled missions.


 
 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 01:16:27 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Overlag

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2019, 09:57:37 AM »
had some fun with it last night. Might be too much AI flying around though? Difficult balance to strike.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2019, 10:53:02 AM »
had some fun with it last night. Might be too much AI flying around though? Difficult balance to strike.

Awesome. Glad you had some fun!

How do you define too much AI?  Was it hurting your frame rate too much? 

Even in a big furball, only two AI at a time will target you so you won't get totally ganged.  They won't engage until they are within 1500yd.

It's weird, but you get a lot of unexpected, emergent behavior from those AI missions. Sometime they'll get all clumped up in a way I never expected or designed.  I guess it's a snowball effect.  A fight starts and drifts position and then pulls in a passing patrols and it gets bigger, etc.

I guess I erred more on the "too much" side rather than "not enough".  I sure didn't want people to waste time flying around trying to find something to fight.  I wanted you to be able to move from one turn fight to another quickly. 

But, that is adjustable.  If it turns out we need to, I can trim some of that down. 

I have gotten some good feedback on the AI skill from guys like Dervert.  That may need to be adjusted at some point.  Seems the current AI at A9-A10 are probably the best upper bounds.  A5-A6 seems like the best mid-point.  At some point I'll redistribute the AI capability so that A9-A10 level becomes A13-A14  and interpolate the others.

It's a work in progress.  :D

:salute

« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 11:20:19 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline bustr

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2019, 02:17:21 PM »
It was fun and the Dr1 out fly's the Camel unless you can fly the Camel on the uber edge. The D7 is faster and has a better climb but, you can out turn it. Watch killing the AI such that you have any part of it drop into your plane. Kept killing AI just to have their dead carcass take me with them. Didn't try the Bristol fighter yet. Nice terrain and effects especially the balloons. Can we shoot them down? With only two rides per side and this being a two side conflict, it's very obvious the stable is quite thin. A few more rides would alleviate that. Oh, did you intend for the walls of the tower to constantly fluctuate?

During the alpha for AH3 Hitech had us test a massive BoB mission where we intercepted 60 He111 with 109 escorts. I had to turn off post lighting or my FPS turned into a slideshow. May be related to your FPS problems in Western Front.

When you work out your AI issues, is that BoB massive mission a possible next arena format? He also had a gigantic bomber stream mission over the continent for 1944, that used the late war German stable to intercept the stream. The ongoing carnage was impressive especially with the continent wide cloud layer.

You have found your content creation niche. Guess I've got to finish the rest of my mountain ranges now...... :salute
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2019, 03:11:51 PM »
It was fun and the Dr1 out fly's the Camel unless you can fly the Camel on the uber edge.

Thanks for giving it a try Bustr.  I'm such a bad pilot,  I used to only have a chance if I used the DrI.  However, for 8 months working on the WW1WF, I always flew the Camel when testing.   I think I can at least do ok with it now.  But yeah, against a good pilot in a DrI, it's pretty scary.

Nice terrain and effects especially the balloons. Can we shoot them down?

Thanks, but most of the work was taken care of by Artik's awesome tool.  A button button click and boom, Northern France.  I just needed to paint in the front and tweak the coast sand, and tweak a few textures here and there.

You can destroy the enemy balloons.  They don't fall to the ground unfortunately. The blow up and hang there and burn.  :O  THey are just a hack set as fact fuel objects.

With only two rides per side and this being a two side conflict, it's very obvious the stable is quite thin. A few more rides would alleviate that.

Hard to do much with only two planes. More WWI planes would be nice.  I put the odds right up there with "Peace on Earth" and "Goodwill Towards Men".  ;)

If I had my 'druthers...even getting a two 20lbs cooper bomb load-out for the planes would  open up a huge number of possible fun activities.

Oh, did you intend for the walls of the tower to constantly fluctuate?

No.  I've seen that in my VR.  It's on my list to research.  I think oddly it is due to bump mapping somehow.  I'll have to research it further.

During the alpha for AH3 Hitech had us test a massive BoB mission where we intercepted 60 He111 with 109 escorts. I had to turn off post lighting or my FPS turned into a slideshow. May be related to your FPS problems in Western Front.

Maybe. We're packing 450 AI aircraft into about 3 standard sectors.  And even then, densely concentrated along a single front line.  So I guess that is a pretty perverse test case.

When you work out your AI issues, is that BoB massive mission a possible next arena format?

Well, Hitech may be sick of me pestering him all the time about stuff and may not want me to do another.  :D  If he does, then I'd love to do a BoB project to be complete by next summer for the 80th anniversary of BoB.  For that, I suspect would be a regular Mission Arena approach as the discrete, wave-like nature of the attacks are a perfect fit to break up into a series of set-piece, scheduled staged missions.

I have an Imperial War Museum article that lays out what they consider the nine decisive days of the Battle of Britain.  Some of those days would in turn need to be broken up into multiple missions as there were several waves throughout the day.  That would probably constitute the initial release.

After that, I would periodically add missions to fill out the remainder of days of significant air combat.  I'd be willing to spend a couple of years doing that.  It would really be something to have the entire scope of the Battle of Britain captured and simulated and organized day by day.  That would be a unique historical resource IMHO.

However, I probably wouldn’t start that until Fall. 

In the mean time, I really need a break from WW1WF.  I have a couple of little projects I could possibly do first. Then do an update for WW1WF, then start BoB.


You have found your content creation niche. Guess I've got to finish the rest of my mountain ranges now...... :salute

Thanks.  I look forward to flying in your new terrain when you get it finished.  And I found it interesting to watch the way you flesh it out step by step.  You got that Melee thing down.  Rock on!
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Offline Overlag

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2019, 04:32:05 PM »
Awesome. Glad you had some fun!

How do you define too much AI?  Was it hurting your frame rate too much? 

Even in a big furball, only two AI at a time will target you so you won't get totally ganged.  They won't engage until they are within 1500yd.

It's weird, but you get a lot of unexpected, emergent behavior from those AI missions. Sometime they'll get all clumped up in a way I never expected or designed.  I guess it's a snowball effect.  A fight starts and drifts position and then pulls in a passing patrols and it gets bigger, etc.

I guess I erred more on the "too much" side rather than "not enough".  I sure didn't want people to waste time flying around trying to find something to fight.  I wanted you to be able to move from one turn fight to another quickly. 

But, that is adjustable.  If it turns out we need to, I can trim some of that down. 

I have gotten some good feedback on the AI skill from guys like Dervert.  That may need to be adjusted at some point.  Seems the current AI at A9-A10 are probably the best upper bounds.  A5-A6 seems like the best mid-point.  At some point I'll redistribute the AI capability so that A9-A10 level becomes A13-A14  and interpolate the others.

It's a work in progress.  :D

:salute



It was hurting my FPS a little. The battles were good though, Devert was in there with me. I wasnt too great with these planes 10 years ago, nothing changed. Still fun though!  Something needs to be done to get people into this game and this is a step in the right direction. Thank you :)
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2019, 04:42:21 PM »
It was hurting my FPS a little. The battles were good though, Devert was in there with me. I wasnt too great with these planes 10 years ago, nothing changed. Still fun though!  Something needs to be done to get people into this game and this is a step in the right direction. Thank you :)

Thanks for the feedback.  When I do the update to re-distribute the AI levels, I think I can trim a little excess fat off the plane count. That might help a little.

I think it came out reasonable well even with a paltry two plane type per country.  No bombs.  No bombers.

So imagine what can be done with a full, complete WWII armament and plane set.  More to come.  Stay tuned.  :cool:
 
:salute
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Offline morfiend

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Re: WWI: Western Front
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2019, 05:20:51 PM »
This sounds interesting!   Now I cant wait until I can come back and give this a try.

 Lucky for me it will be a while so I hope most of the bugs are worked out and I can just play....ya I'm selfish like that... :rofl :rofl :rofl


 Hope to see you all soon in the unfriendly skies!


   :salute