Author Topic: Another 737 down  (Read 35429 times)

Offline Puma44

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #615 on: November 04, 2019, 04:23:39 PM »
From what I understand, the crew of the doomed flight were not briefed on what had happened the day before.  If so, a clear failure.

That failure lies with that airline, clearly.



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Offline SysError

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #616 on: November 04, 2019, 04:37:00 PM »
It's a nonsense number.  No stab trim system moves THAT fast.

I am not following you here.  I do not understand what you are saying.

It is number that Boeing put out there.



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Offline SysError

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #617 on: November 04, 2019, 04:38:55 PM »
I just want to be very clear here, I respect all pilot POVs here.



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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #618 on: November 04, 2019, 04:39:58 PM »
I just want to be very clear here, I respect all pilot POVs here.

Me too.  (the real one's that is)

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #619 on: November 04, 2019, 04:47:40 PM »
Now about 50 737NGs have been grounded for cracks.  Which isn't really as bad as it sound, most aircraft have minor cracking to a limited extent.

Unintended consequences.   Some carriers wanted to retire their NGs and replace them with MAXs, but the kneejerk overreaction to the actions of an improperly trained and inexperienced crew have delayed that.  Now tired jets are soldiering on longer than planned.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #620 on: November 04, 2019, 04:48:58 PM »
I just want to be very clear here, I respect all pilot POVs here.

  :salute
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #621 on: November 04, 2019, 04:50:31 PM »
I am not following you here.  I do not understand what you are saying.

It is number that Boeing put out there.

No jet is going to reach an unrecoverable stab trim setting in four seconds short of a structural failure.  Stabs don't move that fast by design unless they're fighters.
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Offline Busher

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #622 on: November 04, 2019, 05:06:55 PM »
I just want to be very clear here, I respect all pilot POVs here.

For what its worth, I obtained an ATPL in 1972 which required far more study and recurrent training than the University degree I obtained in 1969.
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Offline Busher

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #623 on: November 04, 2019, 05:10:37 PM »
Now about 50 737NGs have been grounded for cracks.  Which isn't really as bad as it sound, most aircraft have minor cracking to a limited extent.

All airplanes crack - that's why they have inspections which I detailed in a post about 10 pages ago.

I suspect they weren't grounded... I suspect they were pulled out of service for a scheduled C or D check; but given Boeing's evil boogey-man status, a reporter told the story as if they were grounded by some overseeing authority.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #624 on: November 04, 2019, 05:30:50 PM »
I just want to be very clear here, I respect all pilot POVs here.   

 :aok
        :salute



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Offline ACE

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #625 on: November 04, 2019, 06:16:46 PM »
Me too.  (the real one's that is)

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #626 on: November 04, 2019, 09:11:43 PM »
All airplanes crack - that's why they have inspections which I detailed in a post about 10 pages ago.

I suspect they weren't grounded... I suspect they were pulled out of service for a scheduled C or D check; but given Boeing's evil boogey-man status, a reporter told the story as if they were grounded by some overseeing authority.

A number of jets out there have had various cracks found.  The components (pickle fork?) were inspected fleet-wide.   I don't know the 737 like I do the Falcon and EMBRAER but it sounds like it is being handled.  They'll be repaired or replaced as needed.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 09:17:10 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Ciaphas

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #627 on: November 04, 2019, 10:41:31 PM »
A number of jets out there have had various cracks found.  The components (pickle fork?) were inspected fleet-wide.   I don't know the 737 like I do the Falcon and EMBRAER but it sounds like it is being handled.  They'll be repaired or replaced as needed.

It depends on the system. if they decide to do a 10% fleet inspection and do not find a single crack they will handle each crack as an individual repair procedure. If they find that, say 4 out of 10 are cracked , they will handle it fleet wide.

Because of the recent past, the auto response is to inspect fleet wide. 


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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #628 on: November 05, 2019, 06:34:59 AM »
It depends on the system. if they decide to do a 10% fleet inspection and do not find a single crack they will handle each crack as an individual repair procedure. If they find that, say 4 out of 10 are cracked , they will handle it fleet wide.

Because of the recent past, the auto response is to inspect fleet wide. 


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Sounds right to me.   I think the number found was around five percent.
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Offline save

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Re: Another 737 down
« Reply #629 on: November 14, 2019, 05:36:27 AM »
According to some resources, the pickle fork is not a part of the C-check, since it is a lifetime part that would endure 90000 cycles+.

The first time they found it was apparently during a rebuild of a 737NG to a freighter.

The replacement part(s) for the pickle fork is made of titanium instead of aluminum.

But now they found new problems :

 Aviation Week is reporting that cracks have been found in other locations on the Pickle Forks and planes will have to be re-inspected. This is behind a paywall.

https://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/new-issue-prompts-expansion-737-pickle-fork-checks?utm_rid=CPEN1000000897724&utm_campaign=22066&utm_medium=email&elq2=6e60e0bad2bd4ef98846799387403cd1


    Fair use extract:
    "Checks of frame fittings and failsafe straps, or pickle forks, turned up cracks in four aircraft near fasteners that were not covered in the original inspection order issued Oct 3. As a result, Boeing on Nov. 5 recommended that operators expand the checks to include eight fasteners, up from two in the previous order. FAA will mandate the checks in an airworthiness directive (AD) slated to be published Nov. 13 and effective immediately."
    "The new directive, which is expected to be adopted by other regulators, calls for aircraft in the high-cycle category to be re-inspected within 60 days. Aircraft in the lower cycle category must re-inspect the entire area within 1,000 cycles."

According to a friend of mine who flew 737 until last year told me 2 old SAS 737 will be scrapped instead of repairing their pickle forks.

All airplanes crack - that's why they have inspections which I detailed in a post about 10 pages ago.

I suspect they weren't grounded... I suspect they were pulled out of service for a scheduled C or D check; but given Boeing's evil boogey-man status, a reporter told the story as if they were grounded by some overseeing authority.
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