One pilot who knows how to fly.

[ACE]

So if your job went union, would that automatically make you slower at your job or would you be the same workers under a union?

I’d shut the company down if I was forced to unionize.

[ACE]

It forced me to. Hard worker, do my job. Union shop and now Im going to fast, working too hard, making the other guys look bad. A number of guys had "conversations" with me about my work habits. Had to slow down or have trouble with the other workers. I've been in two unions and both sucked. They took our money for their bank accounts and didnt do crap for us other than to step in when management was trying to get the workers to work 

How stupid is that? Glad Im out of the unions.

Same thing at our local AFB union new guys get “talked” to after their first few weeks cause they work to fast.  Make others look slow etc. I get to see it first hand I have a family member whose a schedule planner out there. Sometimes it takes 5 men to do 1 job and tons of hours they don’t need. It’s pitiful.

[Ciaphas]

Same thing at our local AFB union new guys get “talked” to after their first few weeks cause they work to fast.  Make others look slow etc. I get to see it first hand I have a family member whose a schedule planner out there. Sometimes it takes 5 men to do 1 job and tons of hours they don’t need. It’s pitiful.

The AFGE is a terrible union but, ACE, is this first hand knowledge or second hand knowledge?

I've worked civil service and was under the umbrella of AFGE and there were no slow downs, excessive hours, making union brothers look bad etc...

By the way, having a family member relay information to you is not first hand it's second hand.


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[Ciaphas]

I’d shut the company down if I was forced to unionize.

Once your employees decide to Unionize, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

If a union scares you, you should take some management courses, grow a backbone and follow your companies SOP and the CBA (collective bargaining agreement).

Follow those and you will not be found in fault.


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[Shuffler]

Once your employees decide to Unionize, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

If a union scares you, you should take some management courses, grow a backbone and follow your companies SOP and the CBA (collective bargaining agreement).

Follow those and you will not be found in fault.


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He can close down.

Our employees have seen union work here. Very poor quality craftsmanship. Shop down in Freeport is union and their welding is very poor.

[Ciaphas]

He can close down.

Our employees have seen union work here. Very poor quality craftsmanship. Shop down in Freeport is union and their welding is very poor.

True closing down is an option but a piss poor option. That means the quality of mechanic that is being retained is subpar because the management has no backbone and the union does not police itself as it should. Union does not equal bad mechanics/tradesmen, piss poor mechanics/tradesmen and weak leadership always equal piss poor products and work ethics.

[Shuffler]

True closing down is an option but a piss poor option. That means the quality of mechanic that is being retained is subpar because the management has no backbone and the union does not police itself as it should. Union does not equal bad mechanics/tradesmen, piss poor mechanics/tradesmen and weak leadership always equal piss poor products and work ethics.

Your experience is obviously different.

I am glad I did not have to have a union to be able to work.

[Ciaphas]

Your experience is obviously different.

I am glad I did not have to have a union to be able to work.

Apparently it has been. The common factor that I'm reading here about all of your experiences with Unions boils down to a few things:

1. CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) not being followed by the Union stewards and management
2. Union stewards taking advantage of the management style being used in your past company
3. Company management being weak, almost as if they are "manager in name only" type of folks.

My experience comes from both sides of the fence when dealing with unions. When I was a supervisor, I sat the union stewards down and went over the CBA with them to remove any gray areas that may have existed and to explain my role and what I needed to get done as a supervisor. They explained how they interfaced with the company and what they needed to do as stewards.

I told them that I would prefer that the union police itself before I had to get involved. If the issue did not get fixed, I then started the proper trail to have the individual put on notice.

1. verbal (documented)
2. written
3. time off without pay (3 - 5 days depending on situation)
4. Termination

All of which were documented and signed by myself, individual in question and by the steward representing the individual in question.

I would also create "read and signs" on important aspects of the CBA and company policy (DOD civil service).

My time as a supervisor went well, there was never any legal battles, if someone got fired it was there own damn fault and the Union did not have a leg to stand on because I covered my bases as per Company SOP and Union CBA.


Now that I am no longer with Civil Service but with a contractor, my role as a Union member is to do my job, no more no less. The product I present is of the same quality as when I was civil service and active duty military.  The CBA and company SOP are there for a reason. the fact that they were not being followed in all of your examples means that the failure is within the ranks of management and your Union stewards period.

[MiloMorai]

In the '70s worked for Sperry R&O plant. They had a union, a sub of the UAW, and Sperry was a slave driving company, so a union was required. There was a negative to the union tho, as the job I had meant I started work 20-25 minutes after I should have. This was so I would go on break with everyone else in my section. I also usually sat around at shift end for ~30 minutes doing nothing. This was day shift. On the graveyard shift got much more done as we said stuff it to the union.

[Ciaphas]

we get two 15 min breaks, no lunch and half an hour and the end of shift for clean up. We combine our two breaks so we can eat.




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[ACE]

Problem: union man running a lathe accidentally runs the bit to hard into the steel trips the reset button on the machine. Can’t reset it because that’s not his job to deal with electrical issues.

Solution: union man waits hours until the electrician comes and resets the switch. It’s 4 pm time for union man to go home.

That exact scenario above is why my uncle quit the union 40 years ago and opened up his own machine shop. He was tired of that bull crap. Worked very well for him. 

[Ciaphas]

Problem: union man running a lathe accidentally runs the bit to hard into the steel trips the reset button on the machine. Can’t reset it because that’s not his job to deal with electrical issues.

Solution: union man waits hours until the electrician comes and resets the switch. It’s 4 pm time for union man to go home.

That exact scenario above is why my uncle quit the union 40 years ago and opened up his own machine shop. He was tired of that bull crap. Worked very well for him.

That sounds like a training issue. Was dude not trained on the machine? Was it written in to the SOP that he wasn't allowed to reset it?

Often times there is more going in than what is perceived.




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[Busher]

I was a union member and proud of it for my 37 year career - ALPA international - the Air Line Pilots Association.

I appreciate the opinion of those that see unions as socialistic liberalism but I suggest that those corporations that have unions have earned them. Those corporations that honestly demonstrate that they value their employees as their primary asset rarely have an issue with unions trying to organize their employees. And it isn't always about money... when people are treated like disposable commodities, they will ultimately find a way to fight back. We all know the stories, anecdotal or otherwise, of the long service employee dumped from his job a year before he becomes eligible to pension out.

The rules that have made air safety in North America did not flow down from the FAA or from airline management. They began when air mail pilots in the 1920's started to say no; and when they were fired for doing so, ALPA was born. This union still spends more effort on Capitol Hill fighting for air safety issues than any airline management. Had all those involved in aviation started with the goal of schedule with safety, this union would never been born.

[MiloMorai]

When I worked for BNR would take some electronics over to Nortel in Aylmer. Now the engineer would be screaming for the piece which why it was hand delivered. Would have to wait for a runner to take the piece to the engineer. Even he couldn't take the piece from me.

[Shuffler]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/industrials/fbi-raids-united-auto-workers-president-gary-jones-home