Author Topic: New Tank  (Read 854 times)

Offline ONTOS

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New Tank
« on: August 26, 2019, 05:51:06 PM »
I wish for a new tank, the Soviet IS-2. 122 mm main gun and  good armour. Only draw back is only 28 rounds of ammo. It did see service.

Offline FBKampfer

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Re: New Tank
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 11:33:33 PM »
It's been asked for before, but general concensus seems to be that it would suck pretty bad, and is only marginally representative.

The 122mm falls somewhat behind the 75mm KwK 42 and 17lber in penetration. About 168mm if HTC's data falls within their usual margin of error on the penetration tables I have.

However it would retain penetration better at range due to the higher shell mass.

But tanks would move significantly between shots, making aim correction nearly impossible, and would be useless in a brawl.

Armor is only okay. Roughly 140mm effective at the thickest, with the turret being a real weakness at only 100mm. Would have a hell of an HE shell, but would likely be just under the threshold for destroying a town building, making them inefficient, and overall damage output would be inferior to most other tanks due to the 20 second reload.


With plenty of tanks like the Firefly, Panther, Jagdpanzer, Tiger, Jagdpanther, and T-34/85's slinging APCR as their default ammunition, the IS2 is gonna have a rough time.
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: New Tank
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2019, 01:12:17 AM »
Read that it could shoot 1.5 times per minute. Sounds like you better not miss or you would die reloading lol

Offline ONTOS

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Re: New Tank
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2019, 10:59:21 AM »
Oh well, just a thought.

Offline bustr

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Re: New Tank
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2019, 03:10:54 PM »
The effective ranges to combat our existing heavy tanks at least would make it survivable. If Hitech modeled the blast force of the HE round per the wiki info below, it would be a danger to lesser tanks in the stable with a single shot at 1500m and closer. It would probably get used like the Tiger2 mostly for local base defense to reduce the real probability of the panther and T34\85 using their speed to out maneuver it. It would be a bomb magnet on par with the Tiger2 but, in our current MA environment, it could compete while the short magazine would be it's greatest sore point for players. Who wants to get off a spawn, drive two miles to setup a hide, then run out of ammo in the blink of an eye per our MA environment play style? Still, the destructive dominance of the 122mm round against the stable and buildings would be worth listening to the whines on VOX and 200.


From wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS-1_and_IS-2


According to the same Wa Pruef 1 report, it was estimated that at 30 degree obliquity the hull armor of the Soviet IS-2 model 1943 would be defeated by Tiger I between 100 and 300 m (0.062 and 0.186 mi) at the driver's front plate and nose,[14] while the IS-2's 122 mm gun would penetrate the Tiger's front armor from between 500 and 1,500 m (0.31 and 0.93 mi).[14] A Panther had to close to 600 m (660 yd) to guarantee penetration of the IS-2's frontal armor (The Panther's 75 mm gun could penetrate the IS-2 model 1943's mantlet from 400 m (440 yd), front turret from 800 m (870 yd), and driver's front plate from 600 m (660 yd)[15]), while the IS-2 could penetrate the Panther at ranges of 1,000 m (1,100 yd).[16][Notes 1] However, in the summer of 1944, the Germans experienced a shortage of manganese and had to switch to using high-carbon steel alloyed with nickel, which made armor very brittle, especially at the seam welds. The performance of the 122 mm AP shells of the IS-2 against the Panther improved considerably. The reports from the front described cases where the BR-471 APHE round 122 mm projectile fired from 2,500 m (2,700 yd) ricocheted off the front armor of a Panther, leaving huge breaches to it.[17][unreliable source?] According to Steven Zaloga, the IS-2[16] and Tiger I could knock each other out in normal combat distances below 1,000 m (1,100 yd). At any range, the performance of each tank against each other was dependent on the crew and combat situation.[18]
Line drawing of IS-2

The large 122 mm HE shell was its main asset, proving highly useful and destructive as an infantry-killer. In extremis, the IS-2 engaged enemy heavy armor with OF-471 (Russian: ОФ-471) high explosive projectiles. These shells had a mass of 25 kg (55 lb), a muzzle velocity of 800 m/s (2,600 ft/s), and were equipped with a 3.8 kg (8.4 lb) TNT charge. The explosive power could blow off an enemy tank turret, drive sprocket and tread of the heaviest German tank even if it could not penetrate the armor.[19][19][20][20] Mechanical shock and explosion was often enough to knock out enemy heavy tanks.[19]

The most recognizable disadvantage of the D-25T gun was its slow rate of fire due to the large size and weight of the shells; only one to one and a half rounds per minute could be fired, initially.[21] After some design improvements, including a semi-automatic drop breech over the previously manual screw breech, the rate of fire increased to 2–3 rounds per minute.[21] According to other sources, the increase may have amounted to 3–4 rounds per minute.[22] Another limitation imposed by the size of its ammunition in a relatively small vehicle was the ammunition stowage: only 28 rounds could be carried inside the tank, with a complement of 20 HE rounds and 8 AP rounds the norm.[23][24]
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Offline save

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Re: New Tank
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2019, 05:20:58 AM »
Do not forget the optics often force the IS-2 to shoot at shorter distances than it could penetrate the big cats.

When you shoot, you have given away your position, and normally you retreat, specially if you have a lousy reload time.

Most vehicles could be repaired if they did not burn out, ranging from a few days to several months.
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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: New Tank
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2019, 10:18:56 PM »
They didn't really retreat after firing unless in immediate proximity to cover. They were usually on the offensive, and lacked mobility to respond to German counter-offensives, which was left to the T-34's.


The IS-2 was never designed as a Tiger killer, especially since they had the T-34/85 coming down the pipe. It was built as an assault or breakthrough tank, for use against buildings and entrenched positions. Think of a Stug with a turret.

They were typically attached to shock armies, which had a very high proportion of infantry and artillery, as well as the heavy tanks, but lacked almost any motorization or strategic mobility, and left exploitation to the motorized armies supported by T-34's

Thus the two rarely met in combat. The stories of IS-2's destroying dozens of Tigers is hogwash. Especially considering that this is more than an entire Tiger battalion for the most part.

The other thing to consider is that we have YEARS of practice, decades in some cases, as well as vastly longer-than-average engagement ranges, and deliberately target rather small weak points.

So yeah the IS-2 might be decent on paper, but the armor layout leaves a fair amount of flat plate no matter how you angle the thing, as well as being rather inherently weak at the type combat we typically engage in.

I suspect it would mostly be used as a close range boomstick, base attacks, and a few guys using it as a poor-man's Tiger II or Jagdpanther with that shell mass.


Penetration ranges in-game seems to exceed what was historically seen by a decent margin, and factoring in impact angle, it would actually make a pretty damn good gun if you can work your way above your target.


It would be by far the highest caliber tank gun we have. I wonder if HTC would model over match.
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