Ki67 convergence

[Dantoo]

I am a bit confused about this one.  There is a setting for convergence in the hangar  for the Ki67.  This seems to be only for the nose gun?

Actual convergence for rear facing guns  seems to be off by quite a margin.
I believe all bomber guns are universally set for 600.  If this isn't so, then what is the rule?

I tested the Ki67 at a number of ranges.  The convergence from the drones to a point seems to be beyond 600.  The "drop" from the guns seems to be set for zero inside 400, maybe down to about 350 'ish to hit the point of aim.  Those two are at best not coordinated.  On my tests, mainly using position 6, I was hitting well low and off to the right at 600.

This makes a hard job on a flying torch much harder than needs.

Please advise if this in error.

[Spikes]

I think the bug itself may be the convergence button being available on the Peggy...I noticed it doesn't have the 'lines' attached to the slider.

[hitech]

You can not set convergence on any rear or gunner position guns.

[steely07]

You can not set convergence on any rear or gunner position guns.

That is what we were saying to each other during FSO, it's been the case for a very long time, but (as a 20 year buff Pilot) there is something happening with the guns on the KI67, can you jump in a set offline and have a test yourself please HT?

I was shooting at a P38 sitting still at around D300 and seeing my bullets cross and diverge before they even got to him, it was most disturbing, I actually thought there was something wrong with my stick for a minute.

Some video here if it helps (apologies, it will be in 1080P once Youtube finishes processing) https://youtu.be/o8kSDMfONXA?t=292

Salute!

Steely

[Dantoo]

You can not set convergence on any rear or gunner position guns.

And while that reinforces the observation made in the opening para and clears away the chance of people jumping in and making misleading statements...

The problem is that the Ki67 rear and gunner position guns do not have the convergence set at 600.  They are all over the shop.

[hitech]

1st gunner convergence has never been 600 but it has always been  500 yards.

2nd It is not 100 % accurate to say all guns converge from a gunner. All guns from each plane shoot in parallel lines I.E. no convergence.  Each plan calculates its aim direction to a point 500 yards down the line of your gun sight. Then Each of its guns shoot parallel to each other.

3rd I tested ki67 with the target set at 500 and all was correct in the test.

If you think there is an issue bring up the target off line and film what you think is the problem.

HiTech

[fuzeman]

Item #2 sure sounds like using the 'fire all' button when shooting at targets wastes a whole lot more ammo than I thought { unless shooting at a formation of planes }.
{ Off topic and not relating to Ki-67 but sure relates to gunning. }

<SNIP>
2nd It is not 100 % accurate to say all guns converge from a gunner. All guns from each plane shoot in parallel lines I.E. no convergence.  Each plan calculates its aim direction to a point 500 yards down the line of your gun sight. Then Each of its guns shoot parallel to each other.
<SNIP>
HiTech

[hitech]

Item #2 sure sounds like using the 'fire all' button when shooting at targets wastes a whole lot more ammo than I thought { unless shooting at a formation of planes }.
{ Off topic and not relating to Ki-67 but sure relates to gunning. }

Only if you are aiming 100% correctly.  It also means you have more of a shot gun effect.

Hitech

[Mongoose]

1st gunner convergence has never been 600 but it has always been  500 yards.

2nd It is not 100 % accurate to say all guns converge from a gunner. All guns from each plane shoot in parallel lines I.E. no convergence.  Each plan calculates its aim direction to a point 500 yards down the line of your gun sight. Then Each of its guns shoot parallel to each other.

3rd I tested ki67 with the target set at 500 and all was correct in the test.

If you think there is an issue bring up the target off line and film what you think is the problem.

HiTech

Thanks for the explanation.  That makes it much more clear.

[Dantoo]

I have attached film.  I use a single gun, position 6, and the hit point is consistently below the aim point at 500.

[1stpar3]

Sir! Dantoo...akaTopHat Control You can use >Target command to place a target at desired range to see where they go. Pretty sure you are aware of this, just in case. Set course for say North...then .target 500 180 and you will see target at your south and 500yds away. It also helps with having the target at "off angles" the bullets stream at weird angles at some areas

[hitech]

I have attached film.  I use a single gun, position 6, and the hit point is consistently below the aim point at 500.

Gunner convergence is not elevated to the 500 yards. The sight lines and bore are parallel for gunners.

HiTech

[Dantoo]

Sir! Dantoo...akaTopHat Control You can use >Target command to place a target at desired range to see where they go. Pretty sure you are aware of this, just in case. Set course for say North...then .target 500 180 and you will see target at your south and 500yds away. It also helps with having the target at "off angles" the bullets stream at weird angles at some areas

Yep I did this and the shot falls short at 500.  That's the whole point I keep making.  I'm not sure why that single point keeps getting lost.

[Dantoo]

Gunner convergence is not elevated to the 500 yards. The sight lines and bore are parallel for gunners.

HiTech

I am not sure what you mean by that really.  If I use a single gun, in a single plane (as per the film), is the gun sighted so that the shot falls through the line of sight at 500?

This is what I am reporting - that the gun shoots lower than the line of sight at 500.     Depending on the calibre in use, I would expect that the "jump" differs for each gun, but that the point at which the bullet from each barrel in use drops back through the line of sight at 500.

I cannot for the life of me understand why you would choose any other way to do it.  Are you suggesting that each and every gun is and should be, sighted/coded differently in elevation and then fixed so that every gun on every ship shoots with wide variance?  Do I understand that you simply bore-sight and allow the characteristics of gun/ammunition to simply fly all over the place?  It's quite a stretch to suggest that a fighter pilot should be able to tune his guns in elevation  but that it simply doesn't matter for a bomber defensive position and its just "spray and pray" cos it's all too hard?

So when you say, "1st gunner convergence has never been 600 but it has always been  500 yards", then what exactly does that mean if it doesn't mean that gunner convergence is at 500 yards?

[FLS]

The different gun positions converge at 500 yards. The individual gun positions have fixed sights parallel to the bore line.