Author Topic: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?  (Read 62948 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #210 on: December 19, 2019, 12:13:29 AM »

A vast majority of the updates have been bug fixes (https://www.hitechcreations.com/company-info/news/40-software-updates) a gun elevation change, a couple HUD display changes and so on. Most have been behind the scenes with very little Upfront where the customer can SEE the new stuff. Lusche posted this chart that shows we havent had an new plane or vehicle since tour 168, 5 years ago. Sure we have had a number of new maps from "Bustr", but from the customers point of view, thats it.

What do you want the man to do?  There are bugs that need to be fixed, and he is fixing them.  Should he not fix the bugs?  Do you think he is just lounging around the pool?

And new planes?  How many planes are in the stable now?  How many get flown on a daily basis?  I can only imagine the amount work it take to add a new aircraft with all the control surfaces and damage modeling, animation rigging work.  And then it will get flown one week and then forgotten.  None of the new players trying the game give a squat if you have the Dewoitine D.520 or not.  Once we have 500 players back in the arena, I hope you get every plane of your desire.  I hope you get a new plane a week!


War Online: Pacific, of the 46 reviews posted on Steam most are "negative", granted some are from disgruntled Aces High players, but still not a great showing. War online: Pacific, most would have said would fail anyway as it is a "Furball" setup and so wouldn't hold many players attention for long. It is missing the richness of Aces High. You mentioned at one point that it may be setup to take/make bets of fights. We have seen nothing of this since.

Look.  Let him try some stuff.  He is obviously not allowed to try anything here.  Let him try some stuff there.  It is obviously not finish, but he can only spread himself around so thin.  It doesn't really seem like my cup of tea yet.  I was hoping for more of a Battlefield version of AH, but I'm just going to wait and see where he is taking it.

I agree with you a 2 sided arena won't work, but If you run one once a week as say "Red Team", and "Blue Team" to do away with Rook, Knight, Bishop Nations you would have proof for this day and age that it doesnt work..... or would it work? 

I don't think that would work.  I don't think the win the war logic would work properly.

Adding a few free planes I dont think would be a huge programming issue (what do I know),

I doubt programming is the problem.  It is the modeling, UV texturing and rigging.  And all that effort for putting in an obscure Italian or French plane in that would not add one single new paying customer. 

Either add in a "mission" program that has missions run in the MA, or hire a few players to run missions at prime times both US and Euro. Build some action in the arenas. Free players add numbers, missions add action. Action and number means more players having fun, generate more fun.

Back when I was still trying to convince myself to find a way to tolerate the Melee, I thought I might go in with a six-pack and a clipboard and not fly, but do nothing but setup missions across the arena all night long.  Sorta like a Dantoo for the Melee, but without the kewl accent.   Battlefield had a similar thing with their commander mode, who coordinated squads and tasked supply drops for them and directed UAV coverage to assist certain attacks, etc.  Pretty cool.

Then I decided it was just too hard to set up non-trivial missions before facts on the ground changed out from underneath you.  And 98% of the players would just ignore the missions.  The other 2% would tell you you are doing it all wrong.  And the rest would just take off in the mission and go off and do whatever they wanted, ignoring the plan, and then blame you when things didn't work.

I decided it would probably just be more fun to go in the garage and start poking myself in the eye with a rusty nail.  ;)

I may disagree with Hitech on the 2-side thing, but only in the narrow case of player numbers below 300'ish.  That's one thing in a thousand.

It is important to keep in mind here that Hitech is not the enemy.  The situation is the enemy.  I assure you Hitech is doing everything humanly possible with the resources he has to work with.  We all have had a long history here, but none of us want it to work more than he does.  This is his rice bowl.


 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 12:36:14 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #211 on: December 19, 2019, 12:24:00 AM »
Anyway. Free spitVs and 109Fs for one hour a day.

However, neither Hitech or anyone else answered my question:


I like that idea too, but why doesn't the same attack made on the idea of a limited F2P plane set apply to this?

The argument would go like:  "If they are not completing their 2-week trial, not even staying 5 min, what good is giving them x free minutes a day after their trial ends?"


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Offline Vraciu

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #212 on: December 19, 2019, 12:25:05 AM »
How would that not be a fair test? People could choose which one they prefer.

3 sided gives players more options. And for some noobies they need to be able to attack undefended bases to give them a achievable mission and help the "war effort"

People will not switch away from where critical mass already exists.   It's a well-known phenomenon that must be accounted for in order to have an unbiased experiment.


If the two-sided arena was the status quo people would not leave it for a three-sided one, either.  The crowd is the crowd and it almost never moves.

It's really quite simple.  Also irrelevant.  I stopped talking about the number of sides used when Dale locked the other thread.  We're discussing different things now.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 01:17:39 AM by Vraciu »
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Offline bozon

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #213 on: December 19, 2019, 03:16:24 AM »
However, neither Hitech or anyone else answered my question:
Quote
The argument would go like:  "If they are not completing their 2-week trial, not even staying 5 min, what good is giving them x free minutes a day after their trial ends?"
That is a good argument.

The issue with limited time trial is that it puts pressure on the players - and many don’t like that. Maybe they were busy and didn’t get to play much during the trial time? Maybe they lost some days on acquiring equipment like a stick? Maybe they just don’t want a looming deadline ahead of them? Who knows.

The advantage of F2P is that it puts 0 pressure on you when you try the game. You can install now, then go away on a vacation, go back to check the game when you are in the mood and have time. Especially in a game like AH that requires non standard equipment (stickas bare minimum), requires a lot of fiddling with setups, and has a very steep learning curve, taking it slow is a good thing.

Regarding the “non competitive free planes” argument- this really depends on the fraction of the F2P players out of the AH population. If 2/3 of the players are F2P, then the mostly fight other F2P players with similar equipment and similar (lack of) skill - this is fine. For a single F2P players out of 100 veterans subscribers, the experience will be very different.

F2P will not bring in thousands of players because of all the other reasons I detailed in my post way back in the thread. However, if this raises the probability of a player subscribing from 1:10,000 to 1:1,000 then that is a significant effect (numbers pulled out of my arse for illustration. The presenter is not a real statician).

What the game lacks the most right now is fresh players, even more than paying players.
I don’t believe F2P will be a huge success, but it may get the snow ball rolling again.
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Offline RAG

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #214 on: December 19, 2019, 03:55:04 AM »
We are forgetting though the players who have left the game yet have fighting experience and skills.  I have seen so many posts of people saying they are leaving or cant justify the $.....  Imagine if an email went round to everyone who had ever registered/played  AH saying 'Merry Christmas and congratulations you now have x number of minutes of free playing time a day/week in the MA.'  I bet some oldies, semi interested newbs etc would poke their nose in for a quick skirmish - and who knows they may like it and stay. 

(just my own opinion which you dont have to listen to as it's not my business :cool:  but i do know from my own business that i'm more likely to get an order from someone i have dealt with in the past than a total stranger...)

Offline ccvi

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #215 on: December 19, 2019, 04:10:04 AM »
A warning message should be shown before starting the 2 free weeks:

"This game is hard. If you think you are special and it will be easy for you, you'll be in for a surprise. If you think even if it is hard you'll somehow manage anyway, you'll be in for a disapointment. Please make sure to schedule the start of your free 2 weeks during your vacation time because you are going to need it. Please consider scheduling sessions with the trainers.
Are you sure you want to start your 2 free weeks now? Type 'ACCEPT' into the box below to start you 2 free weeks:"

Offline ccvi

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #216 on: December 19, 2019, 04:31:49 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTYZ-cVxiZk&t=3m23s

This strategy might work for AH, too.

Offline Oldman731

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #217 on: December 19, 2019, 06:16:07 AM »
A warning message should be shown before starting the 2 free weeks:

"This game is hard. If you think you are special and it will be easy for you, you'll be in for a surprise. If you think even if it is hard you'll somehow manage anyway, you'll be in for a disapointment. Please make sure to schedule the start of your free 2 weeks during your vacation time because you are going to need it. Please consider scheduling sessions with the trainers.
Are you sure you want to start your 2 free weeks now? Type 'ACCEPT' into the box below to start you 2 free weeks:"


Heh.  I like it.

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Offline FLS

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #218 on: December 19, 2019, 07:17:04 AM »

We can throw out our suggestions but does it really matter? Responses will just go down the path of nonconstructive conversation as they usually do.


You have to ignore all the game changes resulting from forum suggestions and conversations to believe that.

The noisy idiots don't get their way. That's not a problem.

Offline Ciaphas

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #219 on: December 19, 2019, 07:19:08 AM »
You have to ignore all the game changes resulting from forum suggestions and conversations to believe that.

The noisy idiots don't get their way. That's not a problem.

That has nothing to do with what I was taking about. This thread is full of irrelevant chest thumping.


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Offline FLS

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #220 on: December 19, 2019, 07:34:54 AM »
That has nothing to do with what I was taking about. This thread is full of irrelevant chest thumping.
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Good to know.   :D

Online DmonSlyr

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #221 on: December 19, 2019, 08:15:18 AM »
We are forgetting though the players who have left the game yet have fighting experience and skills.  I have seen so many posts of people saying they are leaving or cant justify the $.....  Imagine if an email went round to everyone who had ever registered/played  AH saying 'Merry Christmas and congratulations you now have x number of minutes of free playing time a day/week in the MA.'  I bet some oldies, semi interested newbs etc would poke their nose in for a quick skirmish - and who knows they may like it and stay. 

(just my own opinion which you dont have to listen to as it's not my business :cool:  but i do know from my own business that i'm more likely to get an order from someone i have dealt with in the past than a total stranger...)

Exactly.

An email promotion like that would go a LONG way.

It wouldn't hurt.

People want to see things happening and want to see that it's exciting with some enthusiasm. Right now we are like a F4U low n slow on the deck. Missing huge potential of the plane by taking the time to get some alt.
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Offline hitech

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #222 on: December 19, 2019, 10:51:50 AM »
(just my own opinion which you dont have to listen to as it's not my business :cool:  but i do know from my own business that i'm more likely to get an order from someone i have dealt with in the past than a total stranger...)

That is an incorrect analogy with a game like AH. Unless I would create a completely different game that was nothing like AH.

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #223 on: December 19, 2019, 11:06:58 AM »
What do you want the man to do?  There are bugs that need to be fixed, and he is fixing them.  Should he not fix the bugs?  Do you think he is just lounging around the pool?

And new planes?  How many planes are in the stable now?  How many get flown on a daily basis?  I can only imagine the amount work it take to add a new aircraft with all the control surfaces and damage modeling, animation rigging work.  And then it will get flown one week and then forgotten.  None of the new players trying the game give a squat if you have the Dewoitine D.520 or not.  Once we have 500 players back in the arena, I hope you get every plane of your desire.  I hope you get a new plane a week!


Look.  Let him try some stuff.  He is obviously not allowed to try anything here.  Let him try some stuff there.  It is obviously not finish, but he can only spread himself around so thin.  It doesn't really seem like my cup of tea yet.  I was hoping for more of a Battlefield version of AH, but I'm just going to wait and see where he is taking it.

I don't think that would work.  I don't think the win the war logic would work properly.

I doubt programming is the problem.  It is the modeling, UV texturing and rigging.  And all that effort for putting in an obscure Italian or French plane in that would not add one single new paying customer. 

Back when I was still trying to convince myself to find a way to tolerate the Melee, I thought I might go in with a six-pack and a clipboard and not fly, but do nothing but setup missions across the arena all night long.  Sorta like a Dantoo for the Melee, but without the kewl accent.   Battlefield had a similar thing with their commander mode, who coordinated squads and tasked supply drops for them and directed UAV coverage to assist certain attacks, etc.  Pretty cool.

Then I decided it was just too hard to set up non-trivial missions before facts on the ground changed out from underneath you.  And 98% of the players would just ignore the missions.  The other 2% would tell you you are doing it all wrong.  And the rest would just take off in the mission and go off and do whatever they wanted, ignoring the plan, and then blame you when things didn't work.

I decided it would probably just be more fun to go in the garage and start poking myself in the eye with a rusty nail.  ;)

I may disagree with Hitech on the 2-side thing, but only in the narrow case of player numbers below 300'ish.  That's one thing in a thousand.

It is important to keep in mind here that Hitech is not the enemy.  The situation is the enemy.  I assure you Hitech is doing everything humanly possible with the resources he has to work with.  We all have had a long history here, but none of us want it to work more than he does.  This is his rice bowl.

I'm not trying to crap on Hitechs efforts here. I'm just pointing out that to the average customer there haven't been any meaningful updates to the game in years. Why should they bother to check it out again?  To them. nothing has changed in years.

You also have misunderstood a few other things I wrote but I cant quote or highlight things very easily on my phone. Hell it's a chore to type with these big fingers on such a small keyboard .

Offline ACE

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #224 on: December 19, 2019, 11:23:15 AM »
I always hated how people sat in the 5.0 ENY planes and ran from any form of engagement. If there was a better ENY restriction process I think that would help a lot. Not fun seeing D-9s and 51s zooming in and out never fighting.

Make a lot smaller maps for quicker time between flights. I don’t like autopiloting all the way to the fight for 10 mins.

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