How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?

[CptTrips]

Rather than gate it that way, why not do all of that, and show them the buttons to press to accomplish those tasks as they're doing them rather than making them go through the missions?  That's exactly what I think would work best to get people up to speed.  It's short, it gives them the info they need and gets them into the MA action fast.  Also have a button on the interface or pause menu that lets you redo it if you forget.

Wiley.

I was thinking of two edge cases. 
1.  Newbie Bob never flown a flight sim, has no idea what you're talking about.
2.  Returning AH veteran.


It's just going to take a whole crap load of explanation of everything to a Bob that you don't want the veteran to have to sit though.  The veteran just needs to test out in the minimal amount of time to unlock the melee.  Bob doesn't even understand how to make a plane go in a different direction.

If you try and lump it all together, you either short shrift Bob, or bore the vet to tears.


$0.02.

[Wiley]

I was thinking of two edge cases. 
1.  Newbie Bob never flown a flight sim, has no idea what you're talking about.
2.  Returning AH veteran.


It's just going to take a whole crap load of explanation of everything to a Bob that you don't want the veteran to have to sit though.  The veteran just needs to test out in the minimal amount of time to unlock the melee.  Bob doesn't even understand how to make a plane go in a different direction.

If you try and lump it all together, you either short shrift Bob, or bore the vet to tears.


$0.02.

I disagree.  A few minute "these are the controls you need to do stuff" isn't going to kill the vet, and add in a bit of "press this key/pull back on the stick once you reach 120mph" type stuff in case Bob literally has absolutely no concept of how an aircraft works it will get them both reasonably up to speed.  It doesn't add much time, and it does the appropriate amount of rubbing Bob's face in the information.  Have the training missions as an option for Bob if he feels he needs more after that.

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

I disagree.  A few minute "these are the controls you need to do stuff" isn't going to kill the vet, and add in a bit of "press this key/pull back on the stick once you reach 120mph" type stuff in case Bob literally has absolutely no concept of how an aircraft works it will get them both reasonably up to speed.  It doesn't add much time, and it does the appropriate amount of rubbing Bob's face in the information.  Have the training missions as an option for Bob if he feels he needs more after that.

Wiley.

I disagree with your disagreement.

Did you not read Saxman's post?  I kinda agree with him to a point.  If I was a returning vet, I would be really annoyed to have to sit through explanation of what roll, yaw, and pitch are.

So what is the downside of having a simple streamlined check ride as an express option?  That could also server as the final exam for players who have gone through the more in depth training.

[Ciaphas]

I disagree with your disagreement.

Did you not read Saxman's post?  I kinda agree with him to a point.  If I was a returning vet, I would be really annoyed to have to sit through explanation of what roll, yaw, and pitch are.

So what is the downside of having a simple streamlined check ride as an express option?  That could also server as the final exam you players who have gone through the more in depth training.

So, why not base the requirement to complete on in game hours and whether or not the player is on their two week trial?

[Saxman]

If I’m a returning player I don’t want to have to sit through a tutorial PERIOD. This goes WELL beyond flight sims. You want to learn a game then RTFM. I’m flat out SICK of games today treating players like they’ve never played a video game at all. Tutorials should be OPT IN, not Opt Out.

So HARD NO on a mandatory tutorial.

[Wiley]

I disagree with your disagreement.

Did you not read Saxman's post?  I kinda agree with him to a point.  If I was a returning vet, I would be really annoyed to have to sit through explanation of what roll, yaw, and pitch are.

So what is the downside of having a simple streamlined check ride as an express option?  That could also server as the final exam for players who have gone through the more in depth training.

Regardless of whether it's a vet or a person who's barely seen a computer before, a "skip" button would let either of them run past the stuff they know.  The vet can get by it if he doesn't need it and it is much faster and more intuitive for the new guy.

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

So, why not base the requirement to complete on in game hours and whether or not the player is on their two week trial?

So, let's make sure we are on the same page....

Comments Hitech has made in the past suggest to me he is wanting a minimal training/validation system to ensure they have the minimal set of skills before being allowed into the Melee for the first time. 

So I'm assuming they have zero hours in the Melee.  Are you talking about hours in an offline arena? 

The other basic issue is that hours doesn't not necessarily equate to knowledge.  I could have spent 6 hours in the offline terrain trying again and again to take off and never succeeded.  Maybe I'm really dumb, yet really relentless.     I have 6 hours now, yet no more understanding than when I started.  How do hours prove you know anything?

[CptTrips]

So HARD NO on a mandatory tutorial.

You'll have to take that up with The Man.

 

[CptTrips]

Regardless of whether it's a vet or a person who's barely seen a computer before, a "skip" button would let either of them run past the stuff they know.  The vet can get by it if he doesn't need it and it is much faster and more intuitive for the new guy.

Wiley.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't see any downside to having a separate streamlined express option for veterans.  I think it would go a long way to minimizing the griping from returning players.

 

[Ciaphas]

So, let's make sure we are on the same page....

Comments Hitech has made in the past suggest to me he is wanting a minimal training/validation system to ensure they have the minimal set of skills before being allowed into the Melee for the first time. 

So I'm assuming they have zero hours in the Melee.  Are you talking about hours in an offline arena? 

The other basic issue is that hours doesn't not necessarily equate to knowledge.  I could have spent 6 hours in the offline terrain trying again and again to take off and never succeeded.  Maybe I'm really dumb, yet really relentless.     I have 6 hours now, yet no more understanding than when I started.  How do hours prove you know anything?

When the "new guy" loads up the game and goes through the check ride, they will have zero hours in the MA. The training should take place regardless of the arena they enter before they are left to their own devices. The training is just as advertised, a quick start "monkey see, monkey do" guide to getting in the air, shoot something, bomb something and landing. I don't believe that "new" guys should be allowed to enter the MA until they have completed this training/check ride.

As it stands now, you are 100% correct, hours do not equal knowledge because the average new guy could spend an hour and never get off the ground. Hence the reason for the mandatory training on all "new" accounts. If your account is not "new" then there should be nothing to worry about and the training should not affect you. If you are one of the unfortunate "veterans" that somehow lost their sign in information and you have to create a new account, you should have no problem completing the training that should be no long than 5-10 minutes.

I would say to them that they kind of need to suck it up and press on and stop taking things personal. Companies put training at the beginning of games to ensure that you understand the basic skills the way they have implemented them prior to getting stuck in. This is not an insult at your intellect, it's simply a way that a company ensures that you have the basic set of skills and knowledge to play the game. If they catered a game to each individual that played it, the game would never get a release date and the company would go out of business fast.

[Wiley]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't see any downside to having a separate streamlined express option for veterans.  I think it would go a long way to minimizing the griping from returning players.

 

And what I'm saying is why bother creating two systems when it can be used for both, with a far more streamlined process for the new guy, and be skippable by either if they don't want it?  I'm more concerned with the new guy.  The vet can live through hitting a skip button.

I mean yes, it's possible they're going to have never seen a computer game before in their lives but I think what you described would be ideal for a new person who's likely got something resembling a grasp of how a game works and likely has a rudimentary inkling of how an airplane works.

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

As it stands now, you are 100% correct, hours do not equal knowledge because the average new guy could spend an hour and never get off the ground. Hence the reason for the mandatory training on all "new" accounts. If your account is not "new" then there should be nothing to worry about and the training should not affect you. If you are one of the unfortunate "veterans" that somehow lost their sign in information and you have to create a new account, you should have no problem completing the training that should be no long than 5-10 minutes.

OK. I think I see what you are saying.  You were talking about players reopening an account under their previous handle so they would have hours in the Melee.  Yeah, I don't even think you need to look at the hours.  If an account has logged into the Melee for any amount of time before this is implemented, they should not be forced to go through training, even if it was for 5 minutes.  They should be grandfathered in.  You can't take away something they already had the day before. That would be rude. 

New accounts that have never logged into the Melee, are subject to the check ride/training.

[Lusche]

New accounts that have never logged into the Melee, are subject to the check ride/training.

IIRC, almost every time I 'returned', I made a new account.   

[CptTrips]

And what I'm saying is why bother creating two systems when it can be used for both, with a far more streamlined process for the new guy, and be skippable by either if they don't want it?  I'm more concerned with the new guy.  The vet can live through hitting a skip button.

It is not creating two "Systems".  It is one simple mission with some triggers.  I'll volunteer to create it if Hitech feels over burdened by the option.    It is such a small thing that could really help soften the griping from returning shades that are annoyed to have to deal with any of it.

 

[CptTrips]

IIRC, almost every time I 'returned', I made a new account.   

I know you can call and at least get your old handle.  I never bothered, so I'm not familiar with the process.  I take you can't get your old stats.

Maybe at that time they get their old handle back, Hitech can flip the bit that exempts them from a check ride. 

Returning players are our lowest hanging fruit.  Annoying them (especially at the very start) should be minimized as much as possible.

If they are returning under a shade, well there is nothing that can be done other than having a streamlined express check-ride that they could blow through in a couple of minutes.