Author Topic: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?  (Read 71751 times)

Offline guncrasher

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #345 on: December 24, 2019, 12:23:52 PM »
I tried planet side, it's a simple game point and shoot. Went thru the tutorial as it's required. Played a few games, then found out I was on the wrong side. Had to create a new character on the right faction, had to go thru the tutorial again and couldn't remeber how to end the tutorial, spent about an hour and a half redoing the tutorial. Almost quit right there.

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Offline Lusche

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #346 on: December 24, 2019, 12:27:03 PM »
I know you can call and at least get your old handle.

There was no need for that, I could also get my old handle with a new account.
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Offline Ciaphas

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #347 on: December 24, 2019, 12:31:18 PM »
I think it's irrelevant if the person is a returning customer. If they can sit through a 30 minute climb out, they can sit through a training mission if their account is new. You can't make everyone happy, to try is to fail.

The point of the matter, is Hitech needs to convert downloads to subs. I'm sure there are far more downloads then there are ex players. If a vet is going to throw a fit about a training mission they are a part of the problematic nature of AH. The whole mentality of add this or take away this and I'll quit is garbage. Not saying that Lusche or Saxman have said that but it has been said plenty of times on these boards by others.

Get over yourselves, Dale has a business to run and the only way that business will succeed is by converting downloads to subs. There are no other gray areas involved, it literally boils down to that.

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #348 on: December 24, 2019, 12:36:15 PM »
There was no need for that, I could also get my old handle with a new account.

I didn't know that.  I'm probably dating myself.  I know at one time many thousands of years ago, if you left and came back, your old handle was locked out.  You had to call and ask for it to be switched over to your new account.

They may have improved that over the decades. ;)



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Offline guncrasher

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #349 on: December 24, 2019, 12:42:08 PM »
I didn't know that.  I'm probably dating myself.  I know at one time many thousands of years ago, if you left and came back, your old handle was locked out.  You had to call and ask for it to be switched over to your new account.

They may have improved that over the decades. ;)

I think it's locked for 30 days then it's fair game.  semp was my ID in aw, when I switched to ah somebody else had it, waited a couple of years till one day it was available, so I got it.


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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #350 on: December 24, 2019, 01:12:50 PM »
Get over yourselves, Dale has a business to run and the only way that business will succeed is by converting downloads to subs. There are no other gray areas involved, it literally boils down to that.

Well, yes.  All the more reason to not piss anyone off more than necessary. 

The training/check-ride isn't meant as a punishment or a hazing.  It is intended to help and make the experience more productive for players that need it.


If possible, you should not force a returning vet to jump through the hoops if not necessary.  If you know  they are a vet, just exempt them.  If they are staying stealth, then at least provide an express check-ride to prove they know what they are doing with the minimal amount of hassle.  There is no point in annoying them if it servers no purpose.

That could also serve as the final exam after the completion of training. 

They may have also instructed themselves playing offline and already have learned it on their own.  An express check-ride just lets them show you they have already figured out the basics.


:salute



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Offline Shuffler

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #351 on: December 24, 2019, 01:13:25 PM »
The problem with kids today is that they want to be really good right off the bat and be the leader. They want to start at the top.

They do not want to waste time learning..... they want to know the short cuts and the key codes.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #352 on: December 24, 2019, 01:18:15 PM »
The problem with kids today is that they want to be really good right off the bat and be the leader. They want to start at the top.

They do not want to waste time learning..... they want to know the short cuts and the key codes.

That is completely false.  There are literally dozens of online games with learning curves as steep or steeper than AH that people are willing to put in hundreds of hours to master.  AH is special only in that people seem to have trouble getting started from the beginning.

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Offline Ciaphas

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #353 on: December 24, 2019, 01:39:15 PM »
Well, yes.  All the more reason to not piss anyone off more than necessary. 

The training/check-ride isn't meant as a punishment or a hazing.  It is intended to help and make the experience more productive for players that need it.


If possible, you should not force a returning vet to jump through the hoops if not necessary.  If you know  they are a vet, just exempt them.  If they are staying stealth, then at least provide an express check-ride to prove they know what they are doing with the minimal amount of hassle.  There is no point in annoying them if it servers no purpose.

That could also serve as the final exam after the completion of training. 

They may have also instructed themselves playing offline and already have learned it on their own.  An express check-ride just lets them show you they have already figured out the basics.


:salute


Ah but you are not tailoring to the individual. You are building a one shoe fits all for new accounts regardless if it's a returning "vet".

They can manage a 5 minute max training mission just fine.

Consider it refresher training... .




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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #354 on: December 24, 2019, 01:47:20 PM »
The problem with kids today is that they want to be really good right off the bat and be the leader. They want to start at the top.

They do not want to waste time learning..... they want to know the short cuts and the key codes.

OK, Boomer.
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #355 on: December 24, 2019, 01:50:39 PM »
I think most players are used to games where you get points for damage.  Here you get assists and points towards score and parks for kills or bombing.  But new players don't see that.

Think a little message that only players can see that says you got 30 damage points counted towards score would give a bit of encouragement.  It could be turned off if you want.

Another thing is give perks for assists, you can up a plane in attack mode hit town and get perks but not for assists. Doesn't make sense.

Anyway I think that little message when you land or get killed or whatever that says you earned 20 points towards score and earned 1 perk would be a little more encouragement to be players.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline pembquist

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #356 on: December 24, 2019, 02:28:00 PM »
Well, yes.  All the more reason to not piss anyone off more than necessary. 

The training/check-ride isn't meant as a punishment or a hazing.  It is intended to help and make the experience more productive for players that need it.


It has been so long since I started this game my memory is a little hazy but I have to say that if I had been compelled to go through a "Lets Practice A Take Off" and "This Is How You Do a Split S, Now You Try" kind of training I would have been very pissed off. What I remember is that I watched a video by...by...the guy who...BBosen on setting up views and set up my views so easily compared to any sim I had or have flown. After that the biggest problem I had was finding information in one easy to find coherent place, this was the most remarkable aspect of the game, (remarked to me by other people who were trying it out,) there IS no manual. You kind of learn from other players and osmosis and multiple BBS posts and ancient pages from the website and the wiki obsolete pages. When I see a clown posting a video of their inability to take off I am pretty sure they expect to be able to play with a mouse like it is an arcade. I think what you could do for those folks is just not have them take off but rather dump them into the air like War Online Pacific does, they need repetition just to sort out the controls, and they need on screen reminders about how the mouse is controlling the flight surfaces and something that tells them what to press for the throttle, make those things permanent until they get enough time playing that they can choose to turn them off, or something.

With regard to the mandated training, I don't think you should mandate it but instead try making it interesting enough that someone will do it for enjoyment. I don't really play any video games so my experience is very limited but I have never seen a tutorial that was not just staggeringly dull, so I think this is a real challenge and would take a lot of time and talent to create. If I was to try something I would streamline the new player experience and give them as little choice as possible until they had played a bit. I imagine and experience of slowly broadening access based not upon completing a training regimen but on flight time. A brand new player might not actually find all of the choice involved appealing as it is too much to keep track of and they are just looking for the key that moves the throttle up and down.

I think War Online Pacific was a good stab in this direction. Unfortunately for AH players the flight model was kind of bad with negative transfer back to AH. There was some confusion about who you were supposed to shoot and there was no story or ability to create a story in it. (What I mean by story is flying somewhere to attack it and coming back or something even more complex.)

Bottom line is I see the training thing has to be part of game play, has to be enjoyable, has to be snuck in. I think training is very easily a turn off so beware.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #357 on: December 24, 2019, 02:37:07 PM »
We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't see any downside to having a separate streamlined express option for veterans.  I think it would go a long way to minimizing the griping from returning players.

 :salute

Forcing anyone to go through a tutorial isn't a good idea from a game play stand point.  That is why the vast majority of games have optional tutorials that allow players the option to enable or disable tutorials in the game settings.  Tutorial enable/disable setting can be added that is a win for both new and returning players.

I know that as a player that takes breaks from time to time, it would annoy me to have to take a "check ride" for a game that I'e been playing for 20 years.
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Offline Ciaphas

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How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #358 on: December 24, 2019, 02:51:10 PM »
if ya have time read this study 


http://grail.cs.washington.edu/projects/game-abtesting/chi2012/chi2012.pdf


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« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 03:37:49 PM by Ciaphas »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #359 on: December 24, 2019, 02:54:53 PM »
Rather than gate it that way, why not do all of that, and show them the buttons to press to accomplish those tasks as they're doing them rather than making them go through the missions?  That's exactly what I think would work best to get people up to speed.  It's short, it gives them the info they need and gets them into the MA action fast.  Also have a button on the interface or pause menu that lets you redo it if you forget.

Wiley.

You gotta' do some variation of this.   You have to show them where things are.  "CLICK HERE."

When you waive the training there needs to be a check box in the corner that's translucent where you can turn it back on.   Some people will click it off and forget how to get it back. 
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